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Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete And Flawed, Clashes Roil Kerry Campaign.
WashingtonPost ^ | 08/22/04 | Michael Dobbs

Posted on 08/21/2004 8:41:10 AM PDT by Pikamax

Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete And Flawed Clashes Roil Kerry Campaign

By Michael Dobbs Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 22, 2004; Page A01

When John F. Kerry rescued James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River in the jungles of Vietnam in March 1969, neither man could possibly have imagined that the episode would become a much-disputed focus of an American presidential campaign 35 years later.

For Kerry, then a green and gangly Navy lieutenant junior grade and now the Democratic challenger to a wartime Republican president, that tale of heroism under fire has become integral to his campaign. A centerpiece of public rallies, videos and a new campaign advertisement last week, it has helped distinguish the candidate from his Democratic primary rivals and from President Bush, who spent the war at home as a member of the Texas Air National Guard.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 229; bronzestar; kerry; michaeldobbs; militaryrecord; rassmann; swiftboatveterans
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To: Wild Irish Rogue

Awesome sumation.

I thought the article was rather fair.

Now if only the New York Times could manage to do the same, maybe some of the media spin would stop,and the truth would be heard.


121 posted on 08/21/2004 7:19:24 PM PDT by sissyjane (Does Rice show up on X-Rays??)
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To: Pikamax

#9 is mislabeled.
It should read: "Kerry continues to flee but then decides that maybe the coast is clear enough for him to return and try to find that guy who fell overboard. Anyways, the guy might live and start to talk and that would not look good for Kerry, no sir, not at all."


122 posted on 08/21/2004 7:20:12 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Political Junkie Too

You also might want to visit this site. It shows Alstons head wound. He should have had a shaved head and many bandages in that photo.

http://idexer.com/articles/alston_kerry.htm


123 posted on 08/21/2004 7:21:46 PM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: Thebaddog

No. Rood spoke of a separate incident, the 'killing a fleeing VC' incident.


124 posted on 08/21/2004 7:23:32 PM PDT by WOSG (George W Bush - Right for our Times!)
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To: Pikamax
Rassman's story keeps changing-
From Kerry's eulogy of Mr. Belodeau on November 10, 1997
"...one of the Green Berets walked along the edge of the boat to get Tommy another M-60. As he was doing so, the boat made a high speed turn to starboard and the Green Beret kept going — straight into the river.
ref http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/08/kerrys_belodeau.html
Then at the Dem Convention the story is this:
Rassmann gave a detailed retelling to the Oregon delegates. The former Green Beret remembered sitting on the deck of the pilothouse of Kerry's boat, eating a chocolate chip cookie, when an explosion under a nearby boat blew him into the Bay Hap River and caused Kerry to smash his arm. ref http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1091102126180900.xml
125 posted on 08/21/2004 7:27:00 PM PDT by afz400
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To: rolling_stone

It was annoying in this respect: The take an event, like the swift vets, as an excuse to simply RERUN that same script from the Kerry convention. They do a 'rowback' like explain how Rassman was on Kerry's boat all along, even though Kerry campaign accounts had him on another boat, and explain how Rassman fell overboard *somewhere else*. When there is a dispute, the article assumes everything in Kerry's favor.
There is still something that doesnt fit. Kerry's boat was hit? how did it manage to speed up then?

So the usual bias. the 'meme' the media will play is: Oh, they just hate the war hero for coming back and telling America about Vietnam.

A few telling points:

-------
KERRY RAN OFF:

At first, nobody noticed what had happened to Rassmann. But then Medeiros, who was standing at the stern, saw him bobbing up and down in the water and shouted, "Man overboard." Around this time, crew members said, Kerry decided to go back to help the crippled 3 boat. It is unclear how far down the river Kerry's boat was when he turned around. It could have been anywhere from a few hundred yards to a mile.




KERRY'S BIO IS WHAT MADE THIS HAPPEN:

Hoffmann, who was already angry with Kerry for his antiwar activities on his return from Vietnam, said in an interview that he was "appalled" to find out from reading "Tour of Duty" that Kerry was "considered to be a Navy hero." "I thought there was a tremendous amount of gross exaggeration in the book and, in some places, downright lies. So I started contacting some of my former shipmates," he said.



WP MEME- IT S ABOUT THE ANTI-WAR ACTIVISM:

"I think that Kerry's behavior was abominable," said Pees, the commander of the boat that hit the mine. "His actions after the war were particularly disgusting. He distorted the truth when he talked about atrocities. We went out of our way to protect civilians. To suggest otherwise is a grotesque lie. As far as I am concerned, he did not speak the truth about how we conducted operations in Vietnam."


126 posted on 08/21/2004 7:45:46 PM PDT by WOSG (George W Bush - Right for our Times!)
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To: wolicy_ponk

Wait just a sec! Kerry served 4 mos out of a 12 month tour which gives him a 33% accomplishment rating. Kerry attended 11 out of 49 intelligence committee meetings giving him a 22.4% accomplishment rating. These stats clearly show Kerry's advance towards inertia. Performance well beyond the call to duty.


127 posted on 08/21/2004 7:47:18 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: BIGLOOK
Freeper N. Theknow says:
"It’s faster than a checkbook, more powerful than a Democratic demagogue, able to lay waste to a liar Kerry with the single click of a mouse. It's a little bird of truth, it's plain to see Kerry's unfit... it's... it's...SuperFReep!

Want to join in the fun? Click the logo to donate to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth!

128 posted on 08/21/2004 7:52:47 PM PDT by Chieftain (Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
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To: igoramus987

I've got a problem with the diagram of the fishing weir. I've never seen one span a canal or river. Traffic would tear them up. Usually a weir or fish trap is L shaped or U shaped and placed where fish normally pass. Something spanning a canal would be properly called a barricade.


129 posted on 08/21/2004 8:05:35 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: ride the whirlwind

"JfnK plotted since his youth to run for president someday and his military time was all a part of the plan"

He was born in the west wing of the hospital, you know.


130 posted on 08/21/2004 8:10:10 PM PDT by keats5
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To: Texasforever

According to the diagram, hard starboard would have run his boat aground.


131 posted on 08/21/2004 8:12:42 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: BIGLOOK
That is correct but this is what was reported

There was the time we were carrying special forces up a river and a mine exploded under our boat sending it 2 feet into the air. We were receiving incoming rocket and small arms fire and Tommy was returning fire with his M-60 machine gun when it literally broke apart in his hands. He was left holding the pieces unable to fire back while one of the Green Berets walked along the edge of the boat to get Tommy another M-60. As he was doing so, the boat made a high speed turn to starboard and the Green Beret kept going--straight into the river. The entire time while the boat went back to get the Green Beret, Tommy was without a machine gun or a weapon of any kind, but all the time he was hurling the greatest single string of Lowell-Chelmsford curses ever heard at the Viet Cong. He literally had swear words with tracers on them!'

132 posted on 08/21/2004 8:17:18 PM PDT by Texasforever (God can send you to hell but he can't sue you. He can't find a lawyer.)
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To: Chieftain

As of today, I'm a 3X donor, Gunney.


133 posted on 08/21/2004 8:19:08 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: BIGLOOK

Thank you for supporting the Swifties, and thank you for your service to our country, too!


134 posted on 08/21/2004 8:26:51 PM PDT by Chieftain (Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
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To: Texasforever; Chieftain
First check with Chieftain about M-60s breaking apart. Turning to starboard (hard) with the river bank on the starboard side = loss of command in the Navy.
135 posted on 08/21/2004 8:29:27 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: Chieftain

This is tough for Navy to say but SEMPER FI Gunney!


136 posted on 08/21/2004 8:34:11 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: Texasforever
This is the best MSM story so far on the SBVs. Dobbs is still giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt, but the seams are starting to show. This story compares the SBVs version of events to the official Naval record and "Tour of Duty," but it leaves out Kerry's varying accounts in between, such as the congressional record quote you posted. Note that in this version, the "mine" hitting PCF is not the cause of Rassmans fall.

Rassman also seems to have inadvertently made a mockery of Kerry's all-important third Purple, the one he used to get out of Nam. It's clear that the rice injury was a self-inflicted joke. That leaves Kerry with a "contusion" on which to hang his trip home. Let's see the medic report surrounding this event.

I wish someone would look into the circumstances surrounding the "Band of Brothers" return home. I suspect that Kerry helped them get out early as well, which would help explain their loyalty.

137 posted on 08/21/2004 9:22:27 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: Texasforever
This is the best MSM story so far on the SBVs. Dobbs is still giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt, but the seams are starting to show. This story compares the SBVs version of events to the official Naval record and "Tour of Duty," but it leaves out Kerry's varying accounts in between, such as the congressional record quote you posted. Note that in this version, the "mine" hitting PCF is not the cause of Rassmans fall.

Rassman also seems to have inadvertently made a mockery of Kerry's all-important third Purple, the one he used to get out of Nam. It's clear that the rice injury was a self-inflicted joke. That leaves Kerry with a "contusion" on which to hang his trip home. Let's see the medic report surrounding this event.

I wish someone would look into the circumstances surrounding the "Band of Brothers" return home. I suspect that Kerry helped them get out early as well, which would help explain their loyalty.

138 posted on 08/21/2004 9:23:23 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: Callahan
Rassman is also the one that recommended a silver star but Kerry only got the bronze and he also asserts that the other boats had already fled the scene when Kerry fished him out

August 10, 2004

Jim Rassman, the Kerry campaign mainstay who reminds everyone that the young lieutenant saved his life under fire, attempts to return the favor in today's Wall Street Journal On Line. Rassman attempts to do this with a handy bit of misdirection and a few ad hominem attacks on the Swiftvets, in whose company he spent a few days back in 1969:

While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.

When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor.


139 posted on 08/21/2004 9:25:30 PM PDT by Texasforever (God can send you to hell but he can't sue you. He can't find a lawyer.)
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To: bluecollarman
It shows Alstons head wound.

It shows a keloid scar. The size of the scar is MUCH greater than the size of the wound. Alston served on the same boat as Kerry, best guess is for about a week. A couple of threads here cover that ground.

140 posted on 08/21/2004 9:26:28 PM PDT by Cboldt
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