Posted on 08/20/2004 10:25:16 PM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
The 5 swiftboat deck logs for 13MAR69 ought not to be at odds. If the logs are actually available, the light they would shine on what really happened and who wrote what could be stunning, considering the entries required for these logs.
Deck Logs: Ships that submit Deck Logs: Purpose, and Content Deck Logs: Location Deck Logs: Format, Research and Duplication What information is not found in deck logs Deck Logs of MSC/MSTS ships Merchant Ship logs
Deck Logs: Ships that submit Only deck logs from commissioned Navy ships are permanently retained by the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives. A ship "in commission" is a Navy command in her own right; she has her own administrative identity, and originates records in her own name. Annual command histories, written under a program initiated by the Chief of Naval Operations in 1952, are included in the active records of the Naval Historical Center. Deck logs are also held by the Ships History Branch of the Naval Historical Center. After 30 years, Ships History Branch transfers the deck logs to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 [telephone (301) 837-3510].
Nearly all service craft are classified as "in service," rather than "in commission." They do not have their own administrative identity but are, in effect, floating vehicles operated by a parent command. Self-propelled service craft apparently keep a log of their movements for their parent command's administrative and legal purposes, but these are not sent to the Naval Historical Center and do not go into any permanent file.
Deck Logs: Purpose, and Content A Navy ship's deck log is a daily chronology of certain events for administrative and legal purposes. Preparation of logs is governed by the current edition of Office of the Chief of Naval Operations Instruction 3100.7 (OPNAVINST 3100.7) series. This specifies the kinds of events to be entered:
Absentees Accidents [material] Accidents/Injuries [personnel] Actions [combat] Appearances of Sea/Atmosphere/Unusual Objects Arrests/Suspensions Arrival/Departure of Commanding Officer Bearings [navigational] Cable/Anchor Chain Strain Collisions/Groundings Courts-Martial/Captain's Masts Deaths Honors/Ceremonies/Visits Incidents at Sea Inspections Meteorological Phenomena Movement Orders Movements [getting underway; course, speed changes; mooring, anchoring] Passengers Prisoners [crew members captured by hostile forces] Propulsion Plant Status changes Receipts and Transfers [of Crew Members] Ship's Behavior [under different weather/sea conditions] Sightings [other ships; landfall; dangers to navigation] Soundings [depth of water] Speed Changes Tactical Formation Time of Evolutions/Exercises/Other Services Performed A deck log identifies a ship's location and movements daily. If the ship is underway, its latitude and longitude are to be entered three times each day in blocks provided for the purpose. Deck logs are not narratives, and do not describe or explain a ship's operations.
Deck Logs: Location Held by The National Archives
Deck logs of commissioned U.S. Navy ships from the earliest times through 1940 are in the Old Military and Civil Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 700 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington DC 20408 [telephone (202) 501-5385. Logs from 1941 through 1973 are in the Modern Military Branch, National Archives, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park MD 20740-6001 [telephone (301) 837-3510]. These logs are open for research. Requests for research appointments, and inquiries concerning log information, should go to the National Archives office holding logs from the time period of interest.
Held By The Naval Historical Center
Deck logs from 1974 to the present are in the custody of the Ships Deck Logs Section, Naval Historical Center, Building 57, 805 Kidder Breese Street SE, Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5060. All inquiries concerning research access to logs from 1968 and later years should be sent to the Ships Deck Logs Section.
Logs from 1974 through 1978 are held in paper form, stored in the Washington National Records Center, 4205 Suitland Road, Suitland MD 20746. Logs from 1979 through 1989 are on microfiche in the Ships Deck Logs Section. Logs from 1990 through 1993 are partly on microfiche in the Deck Logs Section, partly on paper at the Records Center. All logs from 1994 on are being retained on paper and stored at the Records Center. The logs that are classified must be sent to the proper authorities for declassification review before they can be researched or copied.
Deck Log: Format, Research and Duplication Format: Deck logs are bulky documents. Into the 1980s logs were kept on oversized (10 by 15 inches) paper, a typical log consisting of two or more pages per day. In the 1980s, in keeping with a Congressional mandate to standardize on 8½ by 11 inch paper, deck logs began to be written, by hand, on pages of that size. This greatly increased the page count; we have seen single months' logs from recent years run to as many as 300 or 400 pages.
Under the old format, a ship's deck log might run 60 pages or more per month, or over 700 pages per year. (There are the inevitable exceptions, but this seems to hold fairly true.) Under the new format, logs can run from 100 to 400 pages per month or, say, from 1,200 to several thousand pages per year.
Research in Deck Logs at the Ships History Branch
The Ships Deck Logs Section staff consists of two persons. Given the number of inquiries received, the staff cannot read hundreds of pages in response to any one inquiry. Thus the Ships Deck Logs Section is unable to do extensive research in response to queries. Questions must be specific, and must be narrowed down to a particular time and/or place.
If a requestor wishes to search a log, this can be done at the Naval Historical Center (microfiched logs) or at the Washington National Records Center (paper logs). To arrange this, write to the Ships Deck Logs Section, at the address given above, at least two weeks in advance. Specify the ship(s) and time periods (month/year to month/year) involved and the date of the proposed visit.
Duplication of Deck Logs
Researchers using logs at the National Archives, or at the Washington National Records Center, can arrange to have pages copied there at the time they do their research.
The Naval Historical Center has no in-house capacity to do extensive copying. Small numbers of microfiche can be duplicated, and limited numbers of paper log pages can be copied on an office copier which is also used for other work.
Orders for production copying are sent to the Defense Automated Printing Service (DAPS). DAPS is a Defense Business Operating Fund activity under 10 USC 2208. It is not budgeted, but must pay its own way by recovering the cost of all work it does. Thus, any order for copying sent to DAPS must be paid for in advance. The Naval Historical Center has no funds to do this; for this reason, requestors must cover the cost of copying. The Ships History Branch will provide price quotes upon request.
Deck Logs: What information is not a deck log Shipyard Work; Individual Work Assignments; Events Occurring Elsewhere
When a ship is being overhauled at a shipyard, the deck log records the ship's presence at the shipyard, but does not identify the work being done or the materials being used. These logs do not record day-to-day work assignments of individual crew members. A deck log records events taking place on board the individual ship or, if pertinent, in its immediate vicinity. It does not include events taking place elsewhere, such as the activities of crew members on detached duty.
Deaths and Injuries
In cases of deaths and injuries suffered on board ship, the log should record the simple fact of the death or injury and note whether medical treatment was given to the injured. It does not go into detail as to specific treatment given, and does not record other medical matters, such as visits to sick bay or injuries not suffered on board ship.
Medical Records
The Naval Historical Center does not receive medical records of any kind. Individual medical records, as well as any existing medical logs from Navy ships, are sent to the National Personnel Records Center (Military Personnel Records), 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis MO 63132-5100. Under the records disposal schedule established by the Secretary of the Navy, in consultation with the National Archives, binnacle lists and morning reports of sick are not permanent records. They are kept until the information in them has been transcribed into the medical records of the persons involved, and are then disposed of.
snipped from: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq73-1.htm#anchor183771
I don't know if Swift Boats are commissioned Navy ships...Anyone have any idea?
Actually if they are exactly or nearly-exactly alike it's highly suspicious - two people witnessing the same event never give the same description, and the effect is magnified when the witness is surprised or under stress. If the logs show major discrepencies, though (e.g. Log 1 saying "No combat," and Log 2 saying "We exchanged fire with an entrenched brigade."), then one or both entries are lies.
Especially if the logs were rewritten by Lehman
No.
Swift Boats were
well,
boats. Big difference in the Navy.
The Command over the group of boats would have been more equal to a commissioned ship in Command structure, imho.
I don't know if Swift Boats are commissioned Navy ships...Anyone have any idea?
No, they are small craft, not in commision.
Jack
Why did you publish this url? It's bogus, no?
In any case this search page is starting to look interesting as I keep fooling around with it......SOME actual documents are available here (for instance http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/gulfoftonkin.htm ......seems like we ought to find something if we are clever with keywords......happy hunting, the site appears to be huge.
This page will allow you to search through the contents of the U.S. Navy's Historical Center Web site.
Please enter the word(s) or phrase(s) you would like to look for in the "Search For:" box below and click the Search button. http://www.history.navy.mil/search/
It lists kerry as being on PCF-66 for his entire time there. It doesn't list him being on either PCF-44 or PCF-94.
Stephen Gardner recently reported retrieving copies of relevant docs from the Navy Yards and this sounds like the place. He presented one of those - an after action report filled out by Kerry as officer for the boat - for the sampan incident on Scarborough tonight & left Hurley speechless for a short while.
I saw O'Niell on foxnews fri morning and he told of an after-action by kerry relating to the 5 boat incident and the alleged small-arms fire........maybe they have found the motherlode for the docs and they are working on ad #3 already..????
(I was in the Army, sorry about boats vs ships, LOL)
The SWIFT Boats were, well, boats, not Ships. So their logs would not go to the Naval Archives. However, that does not mean that they do not exist somewhere. Not that they do, but they might.
My understanding, and I'm an Army guy not Navy, but the boats would also have a log...it is just that it would not have to be kept at the archive. I think it entirely possibly for many of the CO's to keep a copy of their logs after they move on to a different assignment. A command with so much independence of action would be a very big deal to a junior Naval officer.
Series I, Individual Award Citations, makes up the majority of the collection, spanning 92 boxes. The citations in this series describe medals and awards presented to individual service members. They date largely from World War II, but continue into the mid-1970s. This series is arranged alphabetically by the recipient's last name.
http://www.history.navy.mil/ar/charlie/citations.htm
His oroginal and legitimate medals would be supported by paper copy in this collection, having come in by normal channels......I'll bet you that nothing exists pertaining to a "V" devide over a Silver, like his DD 214 shows!
Ah. Looked fairly benign -- not suprised though.
Yeah, I won't speculate as to whether the errors are deliberate or accidental. I just don't know.
The fact that such a glaring error (regarding kerry) is there calls the entire listing into question in my mind.
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