Posted on 08/20/2004 1:05:44 PM PDT by dennisw
Here are the comments of Phil Carter, RD2, on some of the items in the TOUR OF DUTY coverage of Kerry's time on GRIDLEY. He urges everyone to read it for themselves.
I was an E-5 radarman on the USS GRIDLEY and was onboard from 1965 until May of 1968. My principal role in 67 and 68 was to prepare intelligence information to brief the rescue helo pilots and the ship’s officers. I received a commendation from CINCPACFLT for this activity. I stood quite a few CIC watches with Ensign Kerry where we discussed many things, including the war. I was college educated, had traveled extensively in Europe before the Navy and spoke French, so there was some commonality despite my being enlisted. By that time, I was on my 3rd cruise and against the way the war was being waged. He was not, as I recall.
I am a registered independent and have no axe to grind with him. I gave him a reasonably large campaign contribution in the mid 1990’s and visited with him for about 30 minutes in an alcove outside the Senate chambers in 1996 when I was in DC on business.
Ensign Kerry was a fine young officer. He came aboard as a boot Ensign on June 8, 1967 and quickly impressed the senior officers in his chain of command. His fitness reports were outstanding. His privileged upbringing with experience in yachting and flying a private plane gave him a leg up on the other Ensigns.
When I read “Tour of Duty”, I became concerned because the material on Kerry’s time on GRIDLEY appeared in many instances to be exaggerations and in some cases figments of an overactive imagination.
Here are my observations on the sections that bothered me:
1. Kerry never talked about his time on GRIDLEY. He says on page 74 that it is because “nothing much of note” happened while he was onboard. He uses words like monotony and tedious, when, despite being a boot ensign he was given every opportunity for responsibility by Captain Slifer and Commander Kelly (XO). He came aboard designated for Electrical Officer (80100), a grunt position in the Engineering Department and spent four months in that position. He was assigned duty as First Lieutenant, as Commander Kelly recalls, because of his knowledge of seamanship and his experiences with small boats and sailing. Besides being responsible for the decks of the ship, the First Lieutenant is also responsible for the ship’s small boats. He also was assigned collateral duties as Public Affairs Officer. Despite all the responsibilities he was given, he gives the impression that serving on GRIDLEY was somehow beneath him. He certainly had less of an opportunity to collect “gongs” there.
2. Page 78 – “motivate 400 swabbies” – The First Lieutenant is responsible only for the personnel of 1st Division, not the entire crew. 1st Division had a roster of about 30 in 1968. To the extent that other divisions had responsibility for deck space, their officers would have been responsible for motivating them.
3. Page 87 has Kerry “shuttling sailors and provisions” between GRIDLEY and KITTY HAWK in a small motor whaleboat out in the Gulf of Tonkin. The regular method of travel between the two ships was via helo. That is how I went over to the KITTY HAWK. If such an event did occur, it would have been unusual and hardly a shuttle.
4. Later on page 87 Kerry talks about Olongapo in the Philippines. He talks about bloated corpses floating in the river and starving women with babies dying of malnutrition. Now Olongapo was a wild and wooly town that existed solely for the entertainment of the US Navy, but in over three years of calling there, I never saw a single instance of either thing happening. Kerry uncovered this in his first visit. If this was from his letters home then he was certainly writing for dramatic effect. Balderdash.
5. The trip to Danang – GRIDLEY went into Danang for briefings before going to Northern SAR. This section is so full of hyperbole that the urge to giggle is almost uncontrollable. “The panic and pressure onboard GRIDLEY, strapping on a .45, wondering if I would have to use it, B-52’s howling overhead”. A B-52 over Danang would have been so high that only contrails would have been visible, cloud cover permitting. David Simons confirmed my recollection that during our brief stay in Danang Harbor, the sky was overcast to the point of being ominous.
More seriously, no one can remember John Kerry going ashore. I was part of the shore party that went to Monkey Mountain. We were taken in a screened in truck (to protect against grenades being tossed in) and made to unload our .45’s. The driver said that he did not want us newbies to shoot anyone by accident.
Neither Commander Kelly nor LCDR Rueckert (Kerry’s immediate boss) can recall approving a trip ashore for Ensign Kerry. The author uses remarks of David Simons IC2 as a lead in to the Danang section. I spoke to David and he has no personal knowledge of Kerry going ashore at all. He did talk to a researcher and made some generic remarks about Danang but had never discussed Danang with Kerry. He recalls arguing with the researcher because he tried to put the words “cowboy” in his mouth, which ended up in the book.
There is no mystery about the “gruesome site of a pile of dead VC.” We saw no sign of anything like this. However, our escort to Monkey Mountain did tell us how the VC bodies were stacked up on the LZ’s after the TET Offensive, which had been several months before. Ensign Kerry would have been told this story by members of the shore party.
If, indeed, he got to the pier, because he was in charge of the motor whaleboat, it certainly would not have been within his purview to wander Danang, eating dog meat and drinking beer in a bar (under arms). It also seems amazing that he had all these observations on Vietnam in such a brief visit.
6. In command – Again with the hyperbole. Kerry makes much about being “in charge” of the ship after the Captain and XO. The OOD is in charge of the operation of the ship during his four hour watch but hardly in charge of the ship. Kerry qualified almost immediately as OOD(P), in port OOD but that is a given. For much of his time onboard he would have been Junior Officer of the Deck when underway. Although his fitness report as of 22 March says "he is qualified as OOD(I) now" (Independent steaming – with no ships or land anywhere near) , only OOD(P) is listed under duties. His Fitness Report from July 1968 lists two months as OOD(I) which would mean he qualified after leaving the war zone.
Some of these points may be perceived as picky, but they seem to show a deliberate effort in his writings of the time to build a mystique for a future political career showing him as a great leader, father confessor to the ship and astute analyst of political and military happenings.
That is not to say that Kerry was not a good officer. He was and to my recollection was well liked. Did he stalk the passageways showing his future presidential timber? Absolutely not. A reporter from the Chicago Tribune actually asked me that. When I told him that he was just another goofy Ensign, he was horrified and did not use that quote.
I corresponded with a CNN Producer who was working on Kerry's bio that was shown on July 25. I provided them with three or four photographs of Kerry on GRIDLEY but they were uninterested in anything else I had to say.
Jim Hampton who was a BT2 at the time writes:
I was the BT on the forward Fueling station. Kerry was the Deck officer in charge of it. I came up to man the station for fueling and Kerry informed me that we would fuel at 50 PSI and he wanted 15-10-54321 standbys to secure. I informed Hinderliter BT1 and the oil king of the order. Before Hinderliter had a chance to respond LCDR Butts came on the line from Main Control (Fwd Engine room) and said to put Kerry on my phone line. For everyones info, the fueling phone system was on a speaker in the two enginerooms. Lcdr Butts informed Kerry he was responsible for hooking up the hose and unhooking it and seamanship on the fwd fueling station. The oil king would fuel the ship. That was my contact with Kerry while he was aboard.
I don't think somebody who throws away his medals should be President.
Got a link to his DD214? That would be interesting!
Unless, we need to ask the Navy people here, classes and qualifications on board ship, are they "formal Schools" like an MOS school or NCO School?
I was there in 80 and 81, I never saw any Shore Patrol stationed on the bridge.
However, we were told that if we found ourselves in the river, there would be a dozen shots from the local hospital the next day.
I did see a few animals floating down the river, no humans.
The kids used to scuba dive for coins from us, I even have slide pictures from that.
John Kerry's Mysterious Combat “V”
By Henry Mark Holzer and Erika Holzer
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 20, 2004
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=2652
As the authors of Fake Warriors: Identifying, Exposing and Punishing Those Who Falsify Their Military Service, we receive scores of emails on our website either asking questions about the Fake Warrior phenomenon (which has reached epidemic proportions), or reporting sightings which sometimes lead to exposure and even fines or jail terms.
One Vietnam vet with nearly forty years of military service who retired as a major, spurred on by the revelations in our book, and, in his words. “having seen hundreds of DD 214s” (a veteran’s Record of Transfer or Separation), recently decided to take a close look at John Kerry’s DD 214, which is posted on his website. What the major called to our attention, which we have since verified, raises some extremely troubling questions about John Kerry’s Silver Star. Keep in mind that the Silver Star is the third-highest medal our Nation can bestow (after only the Medal of Honor and the three service “Crosses”).
Kerry's DD 214 lists a Silver Star with a combat “V” (for valor). As the major correctly observes, the “V” is never awarded with the Silver Star. But the actual wording on Kerry’s DD 214 (see www.johnkerry.com) is: “SILVER STAR WITH COMBAT ‘V’.”
There is an abundance of anecdotal evidence that a combat “V” (called a “Combat Distinguishing Device”) is simply not awarded with a Silver Star. For example, a former Vietnam War POW told us that he has “three SSs, and there was no V for any of them.” Countless other Silver Star recipients all say the same thing. Why? Because, among other reasons, it would be redundant to award a Silver Star for “gallantry” (the statutory term) and then embellish it with a “V” for valor.
Most conclusive, however, is that the law is very clear about the award of Combat Distinguishing Devices. According to the Navy Awards Manual:
Bronze "V" (Combat Distinguishing Device).
Prior to . . . 1974, the "V" was authorized for wear on the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, Navy Commendation Medal and Navy Achievement Medal. Between . . .1974 and . . . 1991, the "V" was authorized for wear on the Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star Medal, Air Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal and Navy Commendation Medal. [In] . . . 1991, the "V" was authorized for wear on the Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star Medal, Air Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal and Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal. In all cases, the Combat Distinguishing Device may only be worn if specifically authorized in the citation. See also http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Valor_device.
Because the “V” is authorized for only the ten awards cited above, but not for the Silver Star, Kerry’s Silver Star citation (the “explanation” of why the award was made) does not even mention the “V” for valor (see www.johnkerry.com).
The presence of the combat “V” with Kerry’s Silver Star on his DD 214 raises two extremely disquieting questions. How did the unauthorized “V” get there, and why has Kerry allowed it to remain?
The first question should not be taken lightly because we are talking about possible federal crimes. We are talking about the possibility of a forged official document. We are talking, as well, about Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, which states: “[W]hoever, in any manner within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the United States, knowingly and willfully . . . makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years or both.”
Was the combat “V” added by a sloppy clerk or a yeoman’s typo thirty years ago? Was someone pressured or persuaded to add it? If Kerry had nothing to do with the gratuitously added combat “V,” why didn’t he have his DD 214 corrected when he was separated from the Navy?
Which gives rise to the second disturbing question: If Kerry was not a party to the unauthorized “V,” why, for all these years, has he allowed his DD 214 to remain uncorrected and to repose on his website?
In light of the recent Swift Boat revelations and the cloud they have cast over Kerry’s awards, one plausible answer is that this is yet another example of Kerry’s multiple, and increasingly transparent, lies about his alleged heroics in Vietnam.
Let’s hope it won’t take a controversial TV spot to spark a mainstream media investigation of how candidate Kerry received an unearned “V” for valor.
Henry Mark Holzer [www.henrymarkholzer.com; hank@henrymarkholzer.com], Professor Emeritus at Brooklyn Law School, specializes in federal appeals. Erika Holzer [www.erikaholzer.com] is a lawyer and novelist. They are co-authors of “Aid and Comfort”: Jane Fonda in North Vietnam.
That would have been a different USS Gridley. Kerry's Gridley was DLG-21 (later redesignated CG-21). It was a Leahy-class guided missile frigate built in the early 1960's. There's no way could it have been the same ship your grandfather served on.
Oh what tangled webs we weave . .
If I were a bartender I would have already 86'd Mr. Kerry.
Thanks for the ping!
That's very typical of WWII vets. I knew and worked with a lot of them several decades ago when they were still fairly young men. My father in law volunteered for the Navy and served in the Pacific, but I had to drag the information out of him about his war experiences.
My older cousin was wounded in the battle of the Bulge. He never said a word about anything concerning his time in combat except he once told his mother that what bothered him most in the war was trying to identify pieces of his friends' bodies after an all night shelling. I also worked with a man who was hit in the belly by a Japanese sniper on a Pacific island and lay in the tall grass for 1-1/2 days before he was found. He didn't tell me he had been wounded in action, his friend did. When I asked him about it, he laughed and treated it like a joke. I feel privileged to have known men like that and to have been accepted as their friends.
From what I have heard from other people who had relatives in WWII combat, those old boys were all reluctant to say anything that made them appear to be heroes. Most of the very sparse talk about war experiences I have heard from WWII vets I knew was self-deprecating humor. If they had a purple heart you had to pry that info out of them. One of my dad's friends told me he got his purple heart by cutting himself while shaving. My dad told me later that the old boy had been severely wounded by German shrapnel.
Compare those old guys to Kerry and his constant harping on his dubious "wounds" and his heroic superhuman exploits during the 120 or so days he spent on a VN river. IMO, real war heroes don't go around recounting their deeds to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who will stand still for 30 seconds. I can appreciate Kerry serving in a war zone when so many others of his generation were bugging out to Canada or Sweden. But having done his duty as an American doesn't automatically make him a hero, and it doesn't necessarily qualify him to sit behind the Oval Office desk.
bump a rooni dooni
My dad flew tailgunner on B24's out of Spinozolla Italy in WWII, said it was the end of the war and nothing really happened. Dad passed away 15 years ago, but I recently got a book from his squadron, complete with planes with bullet holes, one with its nose turret blown off and a list of the planes that went down. Dad just didn't talk about it.
What is funny is how this guy describes in detail his contact with the media--and how they were completely uninterested in anything less than positive that he had to say about John F. Kerry.
When was the coronation? I don't remember when the MSM put a crown on Kerry's head, but it's obvious that they have. Probably at the end of the Dem primary.
John Kerry is the Oprah Winfry show version of a war hero. Just blabbering, blubbering and emoting about his medals and heroism in an aborted 4 month combat stint. One account says he was asked to leave after his 3rd purple heart. He was told to get out due to his disobedient and reckless actions. He was a lose cannon
Kerry's boat, USS GRIDLEY, was on float with us in 1980, it is on this page.
http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id5.html
Thanks, Bob. I appreciate the clarification. The Internet supplies very little information about USN ships, and I wasn't aware that the Navy recycled ship names (especially after only 15-20 years).
Cheers!
APf
Wow, I take that back. I did some research after my grandfather passed, and nothing came up. Now a Google search is a cornocopia of knowlege.
My grandfather's ship:
http://www.domeisland.com/goldplater/danfs380.html
Kerry's Gridley:
http://navysite.de/cg/cg21.htm
(for anyone interested).
Bigtime cheers to you. If it hadn't been for this thread, I probably would have put off the research
btt
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I have emphasized certain areas for your review and consideration.
Their website is http://www.navalinstitute.org
“Interview: Douglas Brinkley”
(See p. 56, May 2004 Proceedings)
Captain James F. Kelly, U.S. Navy (Retired)---Every candidate for public office probably has some excess baggage to carry that he’d rather not have. With Senator John Kerry, it’s undoubtedly his anti-Vietnam War activism that followed his heroic naval service in Vietnam.
John Kerry and I were shipmates in the guided missile cruiser USS Gridley (CG-21) in 1967 and 1968. He served as first lieutenant, the office in charge of the deck division, and I was executive officer. I remember him as a serious and intelligent young ensign, seemingly mature beyond his years. The skipper and I were mightily impressed with him in spite of his inexperience. He had excellent verbal skills and great poise so we assigned him a collateral duty as public affairs officer. Because of these duties and his basic responsibilities for seamanship evolutions and the overall external appearance of the ship, I had close, daily contact with him. (In other words, I would be all over his case if the ship wasn’t shipshape.) Turns out he didn’t need too much supervision in that regard. He was a fine division officer, and his men obviously respected him.
We deployed from San Diego to the Vietnam theater in early 1968 after only a six-month turnaround, and spent most of a four-month deployment on rescue station in the Gulf of Tonkin, standing by to pick up downed aviators. It was a fairly grueling tour of duty. Our helicopter was hit trying to rescue a downed pilot and the door gunner was killed. The crew performed well, and John Kerry’s performance in all aspects of his duty was outstanding. Drafting his fitness report was an exercise in the use of superlatives. In fact, of the 30 or so officers, I counted him in the top half dozen, no mean feat for an ensign.
I tried to interest him in a naval career. Silly me! It was obvious he had bigger fish to fry. I drafted the favorable endorsement on his request for swift boat duty on the rivers of Vietnam, where he distinguished himself in combat. Before he left, he gave me his bridge coat and several other uniform items, saying that he wouldn’t be needing them in the “brown water” Navy. Aside from a Christmas card and an aborted phone call, I didn’t hear further from John until I read about his antiwar antics, including his appearance with Jane Fonda and the famous episode of throwing medals onto the steps of the Capitol during a protest. While he was protesting against the war, many of us were still fighting in it. Many of us felt betrayed that one of our own, a decorated hero, would give comfort to the enemy by such actions. Think what you want about the wisdom of getting involved in that war. Two presidents, both Democrats, committed the armed forces they commanded to fight it. Make no mistake: actions by people such as Fonda and Kerry were damaging to our morale, gave aid and comfort to the forces we were fighting, and altered the eventual outcome in a manner less favorable to the United States than if they had kept their mouths shut.
The time for antiwar protests is before the war starts.
I was in Subic in '77 (LSD-40), '91 (CV-62), '92 (CV-62), and '96 twice (CV-62 was in Manila, I drove down in a rental car). In '91 "Sh*t River" was actually crystal clear for a few days after Mount Pinatubo rained the volcanic ash (lahare) down. It didn't take long for it to get filthy again. In '77 some Marines were busted for throwing coins into the river to intice little kids to swim in and get them, yuck. I always remembered the long lines of locals at the front gate filling up their plastic containers with fresh water. I have no recollection of bloated bodies or impoverished pregnant women hanging around the river. Semper Fidelis!
Do you remember Pauline's -- with the two alligators chained up outside the front doors? It was even mentioned in the book, Flight of the Intruder.
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