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Price Gouging Saves Lives
Mises.org ^ | August 17, 2004 | David M. Brown

Posted on 08/17/2004 3:49:10 PM PDT by beaureguard

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Found this interesting article - what say the freepers? Does this guy make his case?
1 posted on 08/17/2004 3:49:11 PM PDT by beaureguard
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To: beaureguard
Does this guy make his case?

Yes. Higher prices encourage conservation and provide incentives to increase supply. They also allocate use to the highest valued users.

2 posted on 08/17/2004 3:53:00 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: beaureguard
Does this guy make his case?

I suppose if you think that monetary transactions are the only true measure of moral interaction, then I suppose be makes his case.

However, if one believes there is a moral difference between "can" and "should," (i.e., I "can" charge $25 for a gallon of water, but "should" I?) then I would say that he has not made a case for anything except his own moral obtuseness.

3 posted on 08/17/2004 3:55:11 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: beaureguard
"Price gouging" is nothing more than charging what the market will bear. If that's immoral, then all market adjustment to changing circumstances is "immoral," and markets per se are immoral.

Whether it's immoral or not is beside the point.

Human beings react instinctively against gouging. That's why this author's point, whatever it is, will always fall on deaf ears.

4 posted on 08/17/2004 3:56:10 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Is it OK to send watered silk to the dry cleaners"?--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Yes. Higher prices encourage conservation and provide incentives to increase supply. They also allocate use to the highest valued users.

This doesn't work: you're applying long-term market considerations to an intrinsically short-term problem.

5 posted on 08/17/2004 3:56:18 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: beaureguard

Capitalism is freedom. Anything else is not.


6 posted on 08/17/2004 3:58:38 PM PDT by blanknoone (Everything is impossible to those who refuse to try.)
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To: beaureguard

"Does this guy make his case?"

Yes. Let the markets work. Selling anything for less than the market price should be a voluntary act of charity.


7 posted on 08/17/2004 3:59:52 PM PDT by doug9732
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To: beaureguard

I will concede he has made his case when they stop going after scalpers at sporting events... It seems to me that if it OK to "gouge" those that are in need from a disaster, it should be fine and dandy to get outrageous prices for scarce tickets to games...


8 posted on 08/17/2004 4:03:48 PM PDT by trebb (Ain't God good . . .)
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To: r9etb
This doesn't work: you're applying long-term market considerations to an intrinsically short-term problem.

It works in the short term too. If a store only has 500 gallons of gasoline, does it sell it to the first customers who come along? If consumers fear a shortage, people could start hoarding by filling up their tanks. If the price remains the same as prior to the disaster, the store quickly runs out of fuel. Then no fuel will be available at any price. Also, those who filled up before the store ran out would be in a position to sell fuel from their gas tanks on the black market.

9 posted on 08/17/2004 4:04:17 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: r9etb
However, if one believes there is a moral difference between "can" and "should," (i.e., I "can" charge $25 for a gallon of water, but "should" I?) then I would say that he has not made a case for anything except his own moral obtuseness.


You don't get it. If he sells you the water at $1 per gallon, or some price you "feel" is moral, and you use it to take baths, water your lawn, or stay around and drink instead of leaving to stay with relatives in an unaffected area, and you would not have bought it at $25 per gallon, it is no longer available to the next customer who is dying of thirst, and values it much more highly than you.

I hope the extreme example illustrates what reading the article failed to.
10 posted on 08/17/2004 4:04:22 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: trebb
I will concede he has made his case when they stop going after scalpers at sporting events.


Why is a denial of freedom (generally caused by private property owners with proprietary rights to an event) in one instance justification for another instance of denial of freedom (by government) in another?

In each case, the owner of the services/goods should have the right to set the price and terms, including limitations on reselling, and charging high prices in an emergency.
11 posted on 08/17/2004 4:07:11 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: beaureguard

As somebody who has been a contractor for 30 years dealing with these situations, I can tell you it is much more costly to provide services to people in these kinds of catastrophe situations.

It takes longer to get from place to place. I have great difficulty getting supplies and materials and they cost me more. I may have to pay more to get labor. The "friction" of business increases exponentially.

So either I need to charge more for a similar service or I can't afford to provide the services they desperately need.


12 posted on 08/17/2004 4:07:28 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: sinkspur

Human beings react instinctively against gouging.



Indeed. That is a good thing. You are supposed to NOT buy stuff you don't absolutely need in a crisis, so that it is there for those who need it most. No other mechanism than market pricing does this so well. (Communists would prefer rationing at the order of the commisar, bleeding hearts would naively rely on good will.)


13 posted on 08/17/2004 4:09:43 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: beaureguard

In a vacuum he makes his point.

I operate a small grocery store in Virginia's Northern Neck. When Isabel came through here last year we were without power (and everything else) for a minimum of four days, some places, as much as two weeks. I kept the store open with a battery powered calculator, a cigar box, and a sidearm. I was the only game in town. I raised not one price. My ice and water went in a matter of hours.

I could have raised prices but would be paying for it today. As it is, people still comment on the fact that I was available and didn't try to take advantage of their grief. They even talked about me on one of the local radio stations that was up on a genset.

Had I, I would have far fewer customers today.

I understand the laws of supply and demand perfectly but profiting on the backs of my own neighbors during a time of universal suffering is not my idea of how to run a business or be a responsible member of a small community. I have to live here when the weather is nice too.

My two cents worth from personal experience...


14 posted on 08/17/2004 4:10:36 PM PDT by CTOCS (This space left intentionally blank...)
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To: Beelzebubba
I hope the extreme example illustrates what reading the article failed to.

Let me use your extreme example a different way:

Suppose the dying person doesn't have $25 for that life-saving drink of water. The water seller can refuse to sell him the water at a lesser price. The question is, should the water seller refuse, and thereby let him die?

I hope the extreme example illustrates what reading my post failed to -- namely, the possibility that there is a difference between "can" and "should".

15 posted on 08/17/2004 4:11:28 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: CTOCS

Wow. Excellent post.


16 posted on 08/17/2004 4:12:33 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: beaureguard
He makes a good point, but he overlooks the importance of public perception in this case. If I owned a business and was constrained by a price-gouging law (or even if I wasn't), I would couple my restraint in raising prices with a limitation on how many items I would sell to any one customer. If I couldn't charge more than $2.00 for a bottle of water, I wouldn't think of selling my entire stock to the one guy who showed up with a pickup truck and wanted to clean every bottle off my shelves.

I've often wondered how effective these restrictions on price gouging are, anyway. Couldn't a business owner circumvent them by simply announcing that he was selling his scarcest products at an open public auction in his parking lot?

17 posted on 08/17/2004 4:13:42 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium . . . sed ego sum homo indomitus")
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To: beaureguard
Does this guy make his case?

He falls in the same category as those who blame the weather service. I'll have to say he's quite detailed and extravagent in his reasoning. Would have been far more efficient to say, "here's my dumbass idea".

18 posted on 08/17/2004 4:15:19 PM PDT by tbpiper (Michael Moore…..the Erich von Däniken of political documentary)
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To: r9etb

How about this: Some yahoo with a truck who lives 500 miles from the disaster sees a report on TV about price gouging and decides to get some of that $25 per gallon for himself. So he loads up his truck with bottled water and sets off to make his fortune.

If he gets there quick enough he might sell some of that water for several bucks a gallon, but most likely he will have to sell it for a small profit if at all. That's because there are lots of other yahoos with trucks who watch TV and would like to make a quick buck.

God bless yahoos with trucks and God bless America.


19 posted on 08/17/2004 4:19:02 PM PDT by SBprone
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To: beaureguard

well I suspect if someone tried selling water for $25 a gallon he would have no store left by the next day, some "natural" disaster would hit it in the middle of the night..


20 posted on 08/17/2004 4:19:55 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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