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To: kpp_kpp
maybe someone here can help me refute some creationistic information that i am having trouble with (i'm looking for logic as much as science but any information will do):

I'll try to help.

a) is a sequence of genomes considered coded information? if not, why not?

Yes it is. Although "a sequence of genomes" isn't exactly the right way to phrase it. "A genome's sequence" might be better. A genome is the entirety of an individual's DNA, so a "sequence of genomes" would imply something like placing multiple DNA sets in certain orders, which I'm sure isn't what you meant.

DNA is encoded in several ways, the most basic being "the genetic code", which maps triplets of basepairs onto specific amino acids.

b) if so (you can guess where this is going), does mutation/selection ever add to that information? if that is an irrelevant question please explain why.

Mutation can indeed add to that information. They can also remove information, or alter information without increasing/decreasing it. It depends upon what kind of mutation has taken place, there are several varieties.

Selection is a bit trickier to give a direct answer for, because it affects information distributions within the population, and thus in order to give an answer you'd have to specify which information measure you're asking about at the moment (e.g. total information size, information diversity, etc.). But selection can also increase, decrease, or change information depending upon circumstances.

c) if genetic sequences are information, and mutation/selection does not add to it (i'm not assuming it does, answer (b) first), does that go against abiogenesis which has to starts out at the absolute simplest level (non-life)? (i know, evolution and origin-of-life are two different things, that is not what i'm asking)

Not a problem, since mutation/selection can indeed increase information, and fine-tune what information is present.

580 posted on 08/17/2004 11:36:57 PM PDT by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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To: Ichneumon

'course, this all assumes a definition of "information". Is there a generally accepted definition of "information" in the context of a genome? I suspect not.


581 posted on 08/18/2004 1:36:54 AM PDT by jennyp (It's a gift........And a curse.)
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To: Ichneumon

thank you for the correction on "sequence of genomes" vs "genome's sequence"

i guess the creationists next argument brings in "beneficial mutation" (or lack there of) but we don't need to go into that here (i've found a fairly decent rebuttal at http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/order.html )

i would be curious if anyone has computed a potential "age-of-life" based purely on computation using currently accepted theories. right now we have estimates as to how old the earth/universe is based on geology/astronomy etc.

if one were to take abiogenesis as the best explanation (of origin) available at this point, based on chance and statistics using beneficial mutation, and natural selection, and life span, how long would it take to go from the simplest life-form (one that came from non-life) to the complexity of the genome sequence in a human being?


592 posted on 08/18/2004 8:03:47 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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