Evolution's 'Dictatorship' -- Student Struggles to Get Opposite Viewpoint Heard

AgapePress ^ | 16 August 2004 | Ed Vitagliano

[microgood]

Yes, scientifically I can say that Abiogenesis happened, otherwise we would not be here.

We now think of 4 dimensions. Could there be a fifth dimension in the universe where life exists and was moved into our dimensions at some point in time, fully intact, with millions of species all at once? I know it is just speculation, but surely there are more than 4 measly dimensions.

[VadeRetro]

It is unproven and unprovable until you do it in a lab.

And then "You've only proven Design!" Creationist Catch number ... Hmmmm ... 22.

[Ichneumon]

First of all, the initial premise is simply wrong. We are talking about statistical analysis. This is hardly beyond our capabilities. If the concern is that we do not have enough data, then make some assumptions and explain what assumptions you are making and why.

If you are not willing to provide evidence supporting your theories then you expect others to accept your theory on faith. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that either.

You're mixing apples and oranges, although I can't tell whether it's due to sophistry, or carelessness.

Lacking sufficient data to perform an exact probability calculation on the occurrence of a given event is not the same thing as lacking evidence that the event occurred, nor is it the same as lacking evidence of the general manner in which it occurred.

I couldn't even begin to calculate the odds of my having met my wife (as opposed to never having met her), but I have plenty of evidence that I did indeed meet her, and how it happened.

Likewise, we're nowhere near being able to calculate "the odds" of abiogenesis occurring, or evolution giving rise to modern life as we know it -- and given the vagaries of chaos theory, we probably never will be able to. But there is abundant evidence that abiogenesis occurred, and overwhelming evidence that modern life arose through evolutionary common descent.

[Jaguar1942]

Now your getting into philosophy and speculation, which is fun, but, at this point has no scientific validity, but that is one of the gifts of being human, we can come up with all kinds of interesting scenarios, from limited information.

There might be millions of different dimensions, one just full of energy, in which we could stick a gateway and pull whatever power we need right out, no matter where we are in our own universe.

The thoughts on this could be endless...

[Junior]

I think you misunderstand the concept of "dimensions" in this regard. Dimensions are not some alternate universe; they are part of the physical universe we inhabit. The best way I've heard it put is that each extra dimension (and there are between 10 and 64) simply pin down an object's position with greater accuracy.

[VadeRetro]

Could there be a fifth dimension in the universe where life exists and was moved into our dimensions at some point in time, fully intact, with millions of species all at once?

No Marilyn McCoo, no Fifth Dimension.

[microgood]

Scientists can enquire into whatever directions they desire. Nothing is stopping anyone from testing for the Almighty's hand in the origins of life. How would you go about setting up such a test?

I would not look for a God per se, but the mechanism by which life came to a dead planet. Places where life is the oldest, most concentrated, around known meteorite sites to see if it was brought here to one location, then spread naturally. I would also want to test for alternate dimensions in the universe somehow as a possibility. I would also study what it would take to bring all the necessary conditions for life together on the planet to allow life.

What I would not do is say we absolutely just formed here as the earth cooled down and randomly happened and only do research based on that assumption.

My gut instinct tells me life came from somewhere else than this planet, in whatever form but living, and there is nothing compelling enough in abiogenesis theory to change my gut instinct. That is not to say I could not change my thinking is some compelling evidence was discovered.

[Ichneumon]

I certainly do not have evidence to present. But does there have to be a default position of abiogenesis given the lack of theories to support that position?

Abiogenesis is not the current paradigm because it is some sort of "default position" -- it's the current paradigm because that's what the evidence indicates.

Or can there still be scientific inquiry into other possibilities?

Sure -- and there is.

[microgood]

I think you misunderstand the concept of "dimensions" in this regard.

Oops. Maybe I meant a parallel universe. Or life vs. anti-life.

[PatrickHenry]

Nothing is stopping anyone from testing for the Almighty's hand in the origins of life. How would you go about setting up such a test?

First, you'd need a God-O-Meter, which would let you test for the presence of spiritual vibes, and their intensity. With that equipment installed, you'd then merely be following standard lab protocol.

[Jaguar1942]

Who ya gonna call?

[Junior]

Panspermia is alive and well in the scientific community. Recent discoveries indicate the "stuff of life" is relatively abundant in interstellar dust clouds.

[PatrickHenry]

Who ya gonna call?

For a God-O-Meter? Look, I'm a theory guy. Way up there. I concentrate on the big picture. I leave it to my grad students and lab-rats to hustle around for the right equipment.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Of course they can, but it doesn't make it so. We have the Truth, given to us as the Word of God, and we have faith given to us as a gift. Truth is not subjective, no matter what those who would lie, distort it to be. All liars have as their father the devil. All those who love the Truth, have as their Father, God.

[Jaguar1942]

You have faith that it is the truth, you do not have fact that it is the truth.

I hope you realize the difference.

[hopespringseternal]

Then why bitch about it unless you are just another troll?

Completely ignoring the rest of my post...

[Junior]

And they base their faiths on as much evidence as you base yours.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

The fact that I am not the evil person that I once was, (and have no desire to be again,) is proof enough to me, that the Lord lives, just as He said He would, and that He can and does change the heart. Just as He said He will.

[RightWingNilla]

Oh! Now it's on b***! You best be prepared to throw down, 'cause Behe's strappin' like a loked out thug.

LOL.

Behe: "Time to meet the DESIGNER PUNK!"

[D Edmund Joaquin]

I base mine on the Resurrection. On what do you base yours?