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Evolution's 'Dictatorship' -- Student Struggles to Get Opposite Viewpoint Heard
AgapePress ^ | 16 August 2004 | Ed Vitagliano

Posted on 08/16/2004 9:40:47 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: Doctor Stochastic
Is this the same CPA-in-the-Sky who adjusts the number of heads and tails to make the result agree with the Law of Large Numbers?

The Cosmic Clerk is, as you correctly guessed, related to the Fine Tuner. They are both subservient to, and handle details for, the Intelligent Designer.

281 posted on 08/17/2004 6:31:29 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (If I never respond to you, maybe it's because I think you're an idiot.)
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To: PatrickHenry
The Fine Tuner's name is, of course, Mister Opporknockity. He tunes only once.
282 posted on 08/17/2004 6:35:14 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: whattajoke
I can't possibly be the first dork here to come up with the tagline.

I would have said "boob" instead of "dork," but then I have a twisted sense of propriety.

283 posted on 08/17/2004 6:50:09 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Heartlander
Henry (Fritz) Schaefer is one of the best living quantum chemists. He's done some beautiful work, and has managed to be somewhat of a gadfly too.

It's news to me he's a 'design theorist'. though I know he's a Christian and an evolution skeptic. Can you find any papers he's written on ID? If not, isn't this a little misleading? If I work on biophysics, but have doubts about General Relativity, does that make me a cosmologist?

284 posted on 08/17/2004 6:55:40 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Junior
No other aspect of science is so relentlessly attacked by those who, having absolutely no grounding in its tenets, seek to denounce it.

I have yet to meet an anti-evolutionist who does not understand the basic tenets of evolution. It's inescapable.

No other aspect of science is attacked so relentlessly because no other element of science has become a religious belief for its adherents.

The difference? Science is open to debate. Religion isn't. Creationists are more open to debate about their theories than evolution is. That tells me who the real fanatics are.

285 posted on 08/17/2004 7:25:11 AM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal
I have yet to meet an anti-evolutionist who does not understand the basic tenets of evolution.

You, yourself, have proven you do not understand what the actual theory of evolution says -- on this very thread.

No other aspect of science is attacked so relentlessly because no other element of science has become a religious belief for its adherents.

To a child with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a person whose entire life is ruled by religion, everything looks like religion. The difference here is that creationism is based on faith, and evolution is based on physical evidence.

The difference? Science is open to debate. Religion isn't. Creationists are more open to debate about their theories than evolution is. That tells me who the real fanatics are.

Not quite. Any debate must be consistent with the evidence. Creationists do not have theories, at least in the scientific sense of the word, so they can debate till the cows come home. Science is more constrained because of its reliance on evidence.

286 posted on 08/17/2004 7:30:52 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior
They let you keep it?

Never saw it. I'm told it didn't look like a bag of gravel, maybe more like a sock full of sandy sludge or something. There weren't any notable stones per se but it was diseased and wasn't emptying right.

287 posted on 08/17/2004 7:33:30 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Doctor Stochastic
He seems to shoot off a bunch of partial-truths or (in this case) non-truths and then attack his critics for noticing the mendacity.

It is apparently an argument ad hominem if you notice someone trying to pull your hat brim down over your eyes and dance around you mocking and japing.

288 posted on 08/17/2004 7:40:27 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: rock58seg
I think people tend to fight pretty hard to defend their worldview. In some areas of life this is no bad thing but I don't think it's productive in science.

If a theory or hypothesis is robust, it can stand examination, debate, and criticism. At the same time, we should always be ready to modify conclusions, even time tested conclusions, when new information appears.

Kids need to know that science in always in the process of revision. Thinking about alternative theories is the first step to becoming excited about the process. Excited kids may eventually become excited scientists - a good thing!
289 posted on 08/17/2004 7:48:04 AM PDT by Gingersnap
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To: PatrickHenry
I just hope that's not the same Gene Ray that's running Titan Corporation right now, but wouldn't bet on it. I was going to get cashed out of my stock at 22 bucks a share earlier this year before the SEC and the Justice Dept. noticed Titan committing a few fouls elsewhere. The deal dropped to 20 bucks a share and then dropped to "Forget it!"
290 posted on 08/17/2004 7:53:31 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: hopespringseternal
I have yet to meet an anti-evolutionist who does not understand the basic tenets of evolution.

You haven't been reading these threads. I invite you to provide links to any posts by creationists or ID proponents that demonstrate a basic understanding of evolution.

I don't mean they have to agree with it, but they must state the theory in a way that would be acceptable to a biologist.

291 posted on 08/17/2004 7:58:18 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: Gingersnap

Yes, as long as it's real science that they get excited about.

Intelligent Design is not real science, it is religion, trying to claim it's science.

When you wish to use real scientific hypothesis, to excite childrens minds about science, we can talk, but ID is not a scientific hypothesis, it is religion, masquerading as science.


292 posted on 08/17/2004 8:06:26 AM PDT by Jaguar1942
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To: Ichneumon

I read some of that site that that cartoon pointed to.

No scientific thought there, the logic went beyond me and I thought my head was going to explode looking at all the nonsensical conclusions that they were making.

Yikes, please don't make me suffer like that again. ;)


293 posted on 08/17/2004 8:10:43 AM PDT by Jaguar1942
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To: Gingersnap
Thinking about alternative theories is the first step to becoming excited about the process.

Fine. As long as you can agree to the second step; teaching them that there are currrently no "alternative thoeries." Or, if you are using the colloquial "theories," then we can teach them that there are, in fact, limitless "alternative theories." And watch their heads spin!

No thanks. I am fully confident that real science is more than exciting as it is without introducing supernaturalism and superstition.
294 posted on 08/17/2004 8:12:56 AM PDT by whattajoke (.)(.)
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To: whattajoke

Modification of your tagline.


295 posted on 08/17/2004 8:19:34 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (@)(@)
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To: RightWingNilla

---
And a good thing too. Because based on the organization human genome, the "designer" must have been an incompetent putz.
---

ID also doesn't make moral judgements on the quality of the design. An inefficient design is still as much of a design as an efficient design. In other words, level of efficiency is irrelevant to the question of design.


296 posted on 08/17/2004 8:23:23 AM PDT by frgoff
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To: frgoff

What a great escape clause.

Doesn't make a moral judgement on the quality of the design.

Evolution shows that the Genome should look pretty confusing, there should be some that is used and some that aren't, some are tossed in randomly because they somehow fused into the DNA structure at some point.

ID would show that there is a minimum of unused DNA structure, that there would be a minimum of wasted space, the designer would have used as little as possible to make his designee to work.

DNA structure shows and evolution made the prediction, that the DNA structure would be loaded with DNA fragments that were either A: not used, or B: were used for a different purpose then they had orignally beeen.

ID makes no predictions, it is not helpful to science in any way shape or form, except to get creationists all excited about the possibility. Sorry to burst your bubbles, but it not scientific, and it sure as heck makes no predicitions, and it has not been helpful to science in the least.


297 posted on 08/17/2004 8:31:47 AM PDT by Jaguar1942
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To: hopespringseternal
Creationists are more open to debate about their theories than evolution is.

What "theories"? I have asked creationists here and in other forum to state just one theory, and they have always refused to do this!

I don't see a need to discuss creationist "theories" until they actually present a single theory to discuss!
298 posted on 08/17/2004 8:43:58 AM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://www.aa419.org)
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To: frgoff
An inefficient design is still as much of a design as an efficient design.

So you're not a big believer in that omnipotent, perfect, all-knowing stuff? Hmmm...
299 posted on 08/17/2004 8:46:33 AM PDT by whattajoke (.)(.)
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To: Ichneumon

The talk origins site is a bunch of propaganda -- twist the science to make evolution appear as fact. These guys are a bunch of religious humanist zealots -- look at the links to the guys who passed away. This is all they did with their time.

I would recommend the article "Five Major Evolutionist Misconceptions about Evolution." I think this link will get you there

http://www.trueorigin.org/isakrbtl.asp


300 posted on 08/17/2004 8:47:01 AM PDT by nasamn777 (The most strident evolutionists have put their heads in the sands of ignorance)
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