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To: Protagoras
Incorrect, he did it on several occasions. Even attempting to arrest the Chief Justice when opposed.

The Constitution does not provide a guarantee of immunity to the Chief Justice.

Mandate? What an odd way to phrase his opinion, which of course carries no constitutional weight since it isn't the President's job to wage war on states to compel them to agree with him.

Lincoln was quite willing to be disagreed with. In fact, he expected it as a minority President and said as much in his inaugural.

He was quite willing to preserve slavery, and slaveowner's property interests, as long as it preserved the Union.

It was within his power to have prevented it.

I think the most one could say is that it was in his power to postpone it.

Not THAT is silly.

Of course it is. As soon as we involve the intentionality of more than one person in a series of interconnected events , all the outcomes cannot be laid at one person's feet. That would be to pretend that other people besides the original protagonist are robots.

The states did not join the union by signing the Federalist.

Correct. The Federalist merely presents the case that the authors of the Constitution were making for it.

So the signers, having read The Federalist, were well aware of many of the implications of what they were signing.

And not contemplating secession doesn't forbid it.

Nor does it permit it. It was a lacuna in the Constitution, and a topic over which people could honestly differ.

600,000 of whom lost thier saftey and prosperity over the issue, I guess they don't count.

And some millions gained freedom as well. There were more Americans than just the 600,000 men who died. And the majority of those who fell went into battle quite willingly and voluntarily - as far as they were concerned their opinion definitely counted.

82 posted on 08/11/2004 8:48:09 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake
The Constitution does not provide a guarantee of immunity to the Chief Justice.

Immunity from what? Better check your facts. Lincoln ignored the constitution several times.

Lincoln was quite willing to be disagreed with.

Hundreds of thousands died because of his "willingness".

He was quite willing to preserve slavery, and slaveowner's property interests, as long as it preserved the Union.

At least you don't subscribe to the fantasy of many hero worshipers, to your credit. He was a racist.

I think the most one could say is that it was in his power to postpone it.

Your opinion is noted. We disagree. He could have simply let them go. By the time he was out of power, it would have been a settled issue.

So the signers, having read The Federalist, were well aware of many of the implications of what they were signing.

You are making the case that the states knew they were forbidden at gunpoint from ever leaving the union and still joined? That is ridiculous IMO.

Nor does it permit it. It was a lacuna in the Constitution, and a topic over which people could honestly differ.

The constitution is nothing if not a document limiting the power of the federal government. The tenth amendment leaves the states and the people in charge of issues not covered in it. The federal government has no legitimate power to compel states to remain, Lincoln and others made it up.

And some millions gained freedom as well.

Which of course was never the point, only a consequence.

There were more Americans than just the 600,000 men who died. And the majority of those who fell went into battle quite willingly and voluntarily - as far as they were concerned their opinion definitely counted.

Please cite numbers for this assertion if you can. I am more than skeptical. Both sides used conscription extensively.

89 posted on 08/11/2004 9:18:57 AM PDT by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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