Posted on 08/09/2004 3:43:53 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
But Jack Chick is such a literary genius <saracasm!
As someone who has been in contact with many missionaries who are in central and south America, the type of stuff you talked about are few and far between. Most of the missionaries I have heard about have gone into "post Christian" areas, and a few have been welcomed by the local Catholic priest (they are hoping to bring the local populance back to Rome after they come back to Christ).
In some areas, the local governments have pretty much stamped out all religious education. In others, the people are doing just what the rest of the West is, merrily stepping on the handbasket to hell fulled by sex, drugs, and self indulgence.
Come now, I know you aren't that dense.. Contrarewise, you are quite intelligent. I didn't make any such argument. The argument implied is that Rome may be as militant in its efforts in Islamic lands as it is in Southamerica. IE - as militant and generally nasty to Islam as it is to Christians in other lands.
Havoc, no matter how much you hate the Catholics
I don't hate Catholics or Roman Catholics, Dave. I understand your long used argumentation tactic of making the claim with nothing to support it. The object is to attempt to gain sympathy when your argument is failing or to otherwise prejudice onlookers. You are quite smart. Unfortunately you're also quite decietful as your tactics betray. Fortunately, you can be a nice guy for the most part so we just sit back and hope one day you'll lose the decietful part and just be the nice guy.
They have declared war on us. Deal with it and stop trying ot blame everything in the world on Catholics.
I don't think I've blamed much anything in the world on Catholics.. much less this particular little party. Methinks you're over reacting just a tad in attempt to reinforce your prejudice against me. Poor chap. Must have really hit a nerve for you to hurl such broad unsupported charges as a distraction. I would say Islam has not declared war on you. They have declared war on the Jews and on Christians in general, and being Roman Catholics, you guys do tend to run about using the 'christian' label, so you aren't immune. But that still begs the point raised by the story. If you really are being singled out when that has never historically been the case, one wonders why - Is Rome acting in a beligerant fashion to incite it? Enquiring minds want to know... ;)
Which comic books would those be? The newspapers that reported on the events - which Dave himself has previously commented on as well as others and thus knows to be the case - them comic books? If you don't know of which we speak, one wonders if you yourself have been reading comics and missed them.
Yeah, I remember all those stories about Catholics blowing up pizza parlors and truck bombs. You're a riot.
I would say Islam has not declared war on you. They have declared war on the Jews and on Christians in general, and being Roman Catholics, you guys do tend to run about using the 'christian' label, so you aren't immune.
Sorry if I was unclear. I meant Islam has declared war on us, me and you, all of us in the west. Whether you are devout Catholic, evangelical Christian, Jew, agnostic, whatever. We are all in this together, and the sooner you stop trying to blame Catholics for the problem, the sooner you'll become helpful.
But that still begs the point raised by the story. If you really are being singled out when that has never historically been the case, one wonders why
If you think Islam has never targeted Catholics in history, you need a refresher course.
SD
Jack Chick apparently is a dishonest hack when it comes to documentation. I ain't Chick, nor do I use him for a source. So if you want to stick on topic, we'd all be obliged.
As someone who has been in contact with many missionaries who are in central and south America, the type of stuff you talked about are few and far between.
Ah, you admit it; but, it's few and far between.. Murders are few and far between too - that's why we have laws to deal with them. Racist happenings in the US are actually few and far between. But in this country, Even one instance is too many for some things. I think this is the point where I'd restate something said earlier about how Rome acts differently in the US.. but, probably enough to merely allude at this point..
In others, the people are doing just what the rest of the West is, merrily stepping on the handbasket to hell fulled by sex, drugs, and self indulgence..
You forgot the nasty p word - protestantism, which is why it is such a threat that Christians are jailed, chased out of town at gunpoint, etc. (in the few and far between instances). Yes, some of us know and understand. Islamicist wouldn't put up with the "few and far between". For some reason they're not as forgiving as those kind spirited Christians who don't stand up for themselves sometimes..
You are entitled to your opinions. But let's take this one at a time, shall we?
I would loudly question whether Roman Catholic behavior may have anything to do with this. Behavior such as the recorded incidents which occur down in South America where "protestants" are run out of towns, off their lands, ect for merely trying to congregate and build churches.
Re: "Roman Catholic behavior"?
Is there one form of behavior common to all Roman Catholics? I've never noticed that in my experience. All different kinds. The "behavior" of South Americans and Spaniards has a lot more to do with the culture than the Catholic faith. Was the Protestant "behavior" of running Catholics off their land in Ireland something that Protestants would do here if they were allowed to?
Rome as Walter Martin used to say, Is a chamelion that is a different beast on whatever surface you sit it on. They act differently here because they'd never be allowed to get by with the way they act elsewhere.
"They act differently because they'd never be allowed to get by with the way they act elsehwere"? Who is this "they"? Ever heard of the "fallacy of false generalization"? One could say that Protestants here would act like they do in Northern Ireland if they could get away with it. Would ALL Protestants act like Oliver Cromwell and Henry VIII?
It seems clear that you do not have a clue about the situation of Christians in the Islamic world. Making general statements about "Catholics" referring to them as "they" sounds a little like uneducated bigotry. Do most of the people you know talk like this about "Catholics"?
And for those who wish to slap a catholic, take care.
Do you know people who "slap" Catholics? Why would you use that word "slap"? Freudian slip?
Religion involves very controversial and emotively powerful claims about ultimate reality and the meaning of life. Since as far back as the Old Testament people of different beliefs have been fighting one another. Catholics do not hold any monopoly on this. But you should know that. We need to do a better job in this country teaching the history of Christianity and its role in world civilization. A little less of those anti-Catholic liberal secular humanist public schools perhaps.
PJB on TROP bump
One doesn't need to blow up pizza parlors or use truck bombs to be nasty. Roman Catholics in Southamerica in the particular story I'm thinking of ran Christians out of town using Shotguns, threatening their lives. Some they rounded up and locked in the local jail. Are we handwringing, Dave. Is this the "we're not quite as bad as them" argument. Cause I don't see anyone charging Rome with truckbombing Islamicists here or elsewhere. But I also don't think Roman Catholics threatening people's lives, running them off their property or jailing them for being Christian, gives you much room to handwring and play innocent. Rome may very well be innocent in this instance; but, I find it neccessary to ask the question as a matter of being real about it and, perhaps, fair.
We are all in this together, and the sooner you stop trying to blame Catholics for the problem, the sooner you'll become helpful.
Well, I guess I'm already helpful because I didn't blame Catholics. Nor did I attempt to blame Catholics. Not even the Roman Catholics... You might want to get your story straight on that. I asked the obvious question as to whether there was any shared blame based on the claim of Roman Catholics being singled out. Why so necessary to mistate the case and attempt to make me an adversary?
If you think Islam has never targeted Catholics in history, you need a refresher course.
Why would I even care for sake of this case or article? It is enough to know that they are most definitely hostile today. There is an established recent history (long history) in which they have not discriminated further than the appearance of the term Christian. Or are we looking for excuses?
Yeah. When that happened to Catholics here in Maryland some people were pretty upset about it as I recall.
[IRONY]
So, because some Latin Americans get hotheaded, you think it is reasonable to ask whether Arab Catholics are innocent or not, or whether they deserved to have their Sunday services terminated with bombs?
Well, I guess I'm already helpful because I didn't blame Catholics. Nor did I attempt to blame Catholics. Not even the Roman Catholics... You might want to get your story straight on that. I asked the obvious question as to whether there was any shared blame based on the claim of Roman Catholics being singled out.
Why the doublethink? You state you don't blame Catholics, but then question whether Catholics are to blame. Most rational people with even a hint of a grasp of Arab history don't think that bombing victims are perhaps sharing the blame because people half a world away got out of hand.
SD
That's ridiculous. You refer to the alleged offenders as "Roman Catholics" and leap to the insinuation that Catholics everywhere, apparently, share some guilt for something that happened in a remote rural region of South America where disputes between Indians, mestizos, Spanish South Americans, the United Fruit Company, and banana plantation owners have been common for many years. It has nothing to do with Catholics, Catholics here or in Iraq or Rome. Neither the Pope nor officials in the Vatican order Catholics to assault non-Catholics. Quite the contrary is the case.
If you were informed or educated about religious matters, you would know these things. Now...cut it out. This is very dorky and silly stuff you are peddling here.
This would sort of be like us suggesting you should be embarrassed or feel guilty that somewhere in the backwoods of West Virginia or Tennessee guys reading the King James version are dancing around with Copperheads and drinking strychnine to the beat of Elvis music.
Well that's not very soothing.
Dictonary.com
Soothe \Soothe\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Soothed; p. pr. & vb. n. Soothing.] [Originally, to assent to as true; OE. so?ien to verify, AS. ges??ian to prove the truth of, to bear witness.
SD
Yes, Roman Catholic behavior - as in UNUM SANCTUM (which has no invincible ignorance clause) - as in persecuted groups that weren't Roman Catholic for hundreds of years and "every now and then" in modern times as one of your associates noted.
One could say that Protestants here would act like they do in Northern Ireland if they could get away with it. Would ALL Protestants act like Oliver Cromwell and Henry VIII?
How did Protestants get into an Article claiming that Roman Catholics were being singled out for attacks by Islamicists all of a sudden? Oh, wait, you're making excuses, right? Ok. Go talk to the no spin zone. Thank you.
It seems clear that you do not have a clue about the situation of Christians in the Islamic world. Making general statements about "Catholics" referring to them as "they" sounds a little like uneducated bigotry. Do most of the people you know talk like this about "Catholics"?
It seems clear does it. The discussion hasn't gone very far so you haven't really a basis on which to make a judgement as to that point - have you. And as for making general statements, I think I've made statements specific enough to the task for the discussion. You guys don't need an excuse to throw the word bigot around (meaning you apologists), it is done on pretty much every thread a Catholic is on where someone either disagrees with them or is critical. So why the pretense. Just say it about a dozen times and get it out of your system so we can continue the discussion. I'll wait. Just remember to go to confession - wouldn't want you to go to hell for bearing false witness or anything just to pollute the debate in attempt to discredit me by accusation in absence of anything I may have ever actually said or done to give substance to such an moronic charge. IE, I ain't a bigot; but I know the game, so if you're going to waste your typing time throwing false accusations, just do it all at once so we can be done with the crap and move on to what you apparently would rather avoid. I know Dave was trying hard. Lol
Do you know people who "slap" Catholics? Why would you use that word "slap"? Freudian slip?
No, that was me up front begging civility from the seemingly mythical beast called "anti-catholic bigot" in attempt to actually converse. Imagine my surprise (not) when the beast doesn't show up and the other bigot crowd shows up instead.
Religion involves very controversial and emotively powerful claims about ultimate reality and the meaning of life.
Ah, so this is the reason you slander me. LOL. And you didn't even really discuss the issue.. How many am I up now?
Is there any doubt we are in a holy war that as Christians we must win.
Well, Havoc wants to throw stones at Catholics instead.
SD
Apostles' Creed These are the official teachings of the church. Nowhere does it say to assault non-believers or non-Catholics.
DECLARATION ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM DIGNITATIS HUMANAE
ON THE RIGHT OF THE PERSON AND OF COMMUNITIES
TO SOCIAL AND CIVIL FREEDOM IN MATTERS RELIGIOUS
PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON DECEMBER 7, 1965
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITHDOCTRINAL NOTE on some questions regarding The Participation of Catholics in Political Life http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html
Pat is right again. But he also could have added, they want all Western presence gone. So why don't we oblige and let them pound sand or does the sand contain too much oil that we don't want to dig for in our lands.
Of interest is that Saddam had a Christian among his leadership group. But then again who wants Christians anywhere in that area or China, Europe has just written them out of their Constitution too. Jesus was right.
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