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Keyes' candidacy will expose rift within GOP
St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 08/07/2004 | Kevin McDermott

Posted on 08/07/2004 7:24:44 PM PDT by Graybeard58

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To: NittanyLion
Understandable, given the poor choice of phrase on Keyes' part.

I don't want to get into a big argument about this, and I'm certainly not accusing you of this, but do you realize that every single time something like this has happened -- the "bullet" and "evil" things and many others -- somebody is always on these threads explaining to us how WE misunderstood what Keyes said; why we've even been told that he is so much more brillant than anybody else, it's no wonder we don't understand.

If he's so smart, why does it take legions of people to explain what he "really meant?"

And how on earth will he explain himself to the people in Mr. Daley's projects?

541 posted on 08/08/2004 3:07:03 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Howlin
I say this is a decision where somebody sat down to figure out how much evil they could get away with

Sounds like a metaphor. I think the gist of the comment was that Bush should have adopted an absolutist stance but instead drifted as far to the center as he could while still appeasing those in favor of the absolutist stance. That drift to the center is what Keyes is calling "evil". I don't read it as analogous to Bin Laden's evil, or the USSR's evil.

542 posted on 08/08/2004 3:08:43 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: WillRain

From everything I heard, Bush was very grateful to Keyes in the 2000 primaries, for exposing McCain as a closet pro-abort. Bush insisted that Keyes be in on debates, when McCain didn't want that - if I recall correctly.


543 posted on 08/08/2004 3:09:34 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: All
I just posted a report from the front......the Keyes announcement rally today. Look for thread titled "Keyes Will Run for Senate in Illinois", comment # 74.

Leni

544 posted on 08/08/2004 3:10:32 PM PDT by MinuteGal (Stop Global Whining)
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To: NittanyLion

Still not trying to be smart and honestly interested in your explanation, if we say that this is the definition of metaphor:

Main Entry: met·a·phor
Pronunciation: 'me-t&-"for also -f&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French metaphore, from Latin metaphora, from Greek, from metapherein to transfer, from meta- + pherein to bear -- more at BEAR
1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language -- compare SIMILE

Can you tell me how that applies to the above statement.

(I am NOT being argumentative, I swear!)


545 posted on 08/08/2004 3:11:15 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Miss Marple

Agree with every word of that.


546 posted on 08/08/2004 3:12:18 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Howlin
do you realize that every single time something like this has happened -- the "bullet" and "evil" things and many others -- somebody is always on these threads explaining to us how WE misunderstood what Keyes said; why we've even been told that he is so much more brillant than anybody else, it's no wonder we don't understand. If he's so smart, why does it take legions of people to explain what he "really meant?"

*grin* I find it difficult to defend myself, especially given the fact that I wasn't there. I just have a slightly different reading of it. I don't throw the word "evil" around loosely (I don't even call the Democrats evil, as many here do), so I don't excuse his usage of it. I just don't see him calling Bush evil; I think there's a difference between calling the person evil and the process (for lack of a better word) evil. Not sure if that makes a lot of sense...I just think there's a difference between the two.

547 posted on 08/08/2004 3:13:07 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Howlin
If he's so smart, why does it take legions of people to explain what he "really meant?"

Because there's always a few who insist on remaining stubbornly clueless.

548 posted on 08/08/2004 3:14:46 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Alan Go!!!)
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To: Howlin; NittanyLion
This is past history now and for the remainder of time I suspect their will be varying interpretations to what Keyes meant when he spent a lot of time developing the 'evil senario'.... Take the following words and look real close at them and if necessary go back and read his several minutes of explanation leading up to them and you can easily draw the inference that he's indicating Bush is 'evil'....

Keyes speaking:..
"Now, I think you all have to ask yourselves, when you see somebody agonizing about something that's clear and making a decision they are under no particular pressure to make, where the facts don't bear out your opponents and yet, at the end of the day, they come down with a view that crosses the line between complicity and principle, they didn't do that because they were forced to it. See, my problem is that I sit in front of a decision like that and I say this is a decision where somebody sat down to figure out how much evil they could get away with."

See Leading up to the above excerpt he was discussing the decision President Bush had made..... Thus the [somebody] that sat down and made the decision is Bush.... who was trying to decide how much evil he could get away with....

All this is history now and I think we really need to focus can he bring the GOP a winner in IL and can he help the President on the national level. JMO of course.

549 posted on 08/08/2004 3:14:48 PM PDT by deport (Please Flush the Johns......)
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To: WillRain
Some of Keyes detractors took his comment that way

I'm kind of tired of being labeled a Keyes detractor; it didn't bother anybody at all until he started attacking the president.

And he didn't do it just once or twice.

And every time he did, there was a big argument.

But every time he did it, Keyes got some press; and after a bit, it begin to look like that's why he did it.

550 posted on 08/08/2004 3:14:54 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: sinkspur

Far better that everyone lockstep, eh? God forbid Ron Paul bring a diverse idea or two to the Congress, huh? You'll get a dose of that from Tom Couburn in any case so try not to take such offense.


551 posted on 08/08/2004 3:17:45 PM PDT by WillRain
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To: WillRain

None of Paul's bills ever get voted on. None of them. At least he can be counted on to vote for mainstream Republican legislation most of the time.


552 posted on 08/08/2004 3:19:12 PM PDT by sinkspur (If we were as good as our dogs think we are, what a wonderful world we'd have!)
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To: Howlin
I think the whole phrase "better the evil you know than the evil you don't" is a metaphor (someone may come along and tell me there's actually a better descriptor for it than metaphor...). In that context I don't see evil as meaning literally "evil" - as in Osama Bin Laden evil. I interpret Keyes remarks (admittedly, without any context to help me) to mean that it's easier to beat Democrats since we know they're the "enemy" than it is to beat Bush since he's "one of us".

BTW, I use www.m-w.com all the time...

553 posted on 08/08/2004 3:20:19 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
I clearly stated this:

and I'm certainly not accusing you of this

I know you weren't involved in those discussions.

554 posted on 08/08/2004 3:21:59 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: deport; Howlin
All this is history now and I think we really need to focus can he bring the GOP a winner in IL and can he help the President on the national level. JMO of course.

Yes, I agree. There will be varying interpretations, and understandably so. Had Keyes used better rhetoric in the first case it would be so clear as to avoid later misunderstandings of this sort.

And in the more immediate future, I need to focus on eating dinner...I'll check back tomorrow morning.

555 posted on 08/08/2004 3:22:58 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Willie Green

Perhaps it's because he shoots off his mouth before he thinks and somebody always has to come behind and clean up the mess.


556 posted on 08/08/2004 3:23:12 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Howlin

I know...I wasn't insinuating that you were accusing me. (I guess this confusion is what comes with our history...LOL).


557 posted on 08/08/2004 3:24:35 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion

Me, too. I love my little MW button on my IE Links bar!


558 posted on 08/08/2004 3:25:23 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: NittanyLion; deport; Miss Marple

I just told technochick I'm waiting to see what Keyes said today in his speech about the Hillary thing; if he copped to it, as far as I'm concerned, that's over.

I join Miss Marple in predicting that if things don't go well with Keyes, Bush will be his target.


559 posted on 08/08/2004 3:27:00 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: NittanyLion

I'm trying to be nice, hoping we could get this straightened out.

Remember I told you: 1) Keyes will attack Bush, and 2) the Keyes people will come on here and explain to us all how he's not REALLY attacking Bush, WE all just don't understand.


560 posted on 08/08/2004 3:28:31 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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