Oh well, at least I was there to say the correct name of the site...
[… missed the intro …]
Hannity: Well, thank you all for being with us, by the way, Van … look, you spent three of the four months with John Kerry; what did you see and what did you learn about John Kerry and why are you involved in this effort?
Van: Well, John was one of the officers that was prominent because of his presence, so to speak … but I’d like to say that what I learned of him is that he lied about what went on in Vietnam as far as the atrocities that he purported happened. Ah, he also filed false reports about actions we were in, specifically when he earned his Bronze Star and Purple Heart … I was there at that action and during that time, the things that he wrote about were just not true. And I did not find out until years later that he received a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart for that action which he shouldn’t have.
Hannity: uh huh he claims, van, in this … when he got back from Vietnam, he claimed and admitted to committing atrocities … he admitted … he said I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of others. Among the other things that he admits to, he violated the Geneva Convention and that he was involved in search and destroy missions and that he burned down villages. Did you ever see any of this when you were with him?
Van: Let me make this specific … we were all volunteers, we in the Navy were all volunteers to be in Vietnam, we are patriotic people, we came back and are now productive citizens and have been for years. We did not commit atrocities [spoken with emphasis]. In my twelve months there [my emphasis added], I never saw, heard, or read of any atrocities committed by Swift Boat sailors. Uh, and the second part of that, I’d like to say if atrocities occurred as purported by John Kerry, why didn’t he report them while he was a naval officer, that goes against the Geneva Convention …
Hannity: [speaking over Van], I understand that but I mean this is very a serious charge … but er can we just assume then that he committed these atrocities in the one other month that he wasn’t with you?
Adm. Hoffman: Let me break in here
Hannity: Yes sir, Admiral Hoffman
Adm. Hoffman: He accused of that before the Senate in 1971 and he never specified one atrocity at that time and it has been 35 years and to this day John Kerry has not specified …
[weather alert interrupts my recording]
[unk speaker]: ... but very little specifics that can ever be checked so when Naval Investigators went in to find out what had happened, there wasn’t much they could get their hands on. They did discover that a number of the VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War] participants upon whom John Kerry based his testimony were not in the Navy or were not who they said they were and weren’t able to verify any atrocities. John Kerry’s own testimony, his own report, that he had committed atrocities was similarly vague.
Hannity: Yeah, but now there are people apparently in this new book – I haven’t gotten my copy yet, as I understand it there is a copy waiting for me when I get to Fox tonight, of this book Unfit to Serve – they have quotes from other soldiers that, where they were there when he [Kerry] ordered the killing of animals, and this one allegation, they witnessed him killing a teenaged, young Vietnamese boy that was in a loin cloth.
Van: That was where he earned his Silver Star. And there’s much controversy about that. And if he did uh, at one point in his writings he said he did the cooty [???] draw and shot him, where you can’t shoot wounded prisoners; if he did that, he’s guilty of war crimes.
Hannity: Well, he admits that he committed war crimes. I mean, we have his own words … I’ll play it for you when we get back. He admits that already …. We know that.
Adm. Hoffman: Well, if he [verbal emphasis] admitted it, he certainly never reported it. Furthermore, did he ever report one of his shipmates, that is his fellow ONC or enlisted men … I recall … I don’t recall, I got a report from one of the former officers that he did witness Kerry beaching his boat one day and, uh, destroying the …
[darn, weather alert goes off again!!! I suspect a conspiracy! Of all the times to have a break]
Adm. Hoffman: … has just come out recently.
Hannity: Gentlemen, let me put you on hold here because we gotta take a scheduled break here … but I, too many questions I have, I can’t let you go yet. Roy Hoffman is with us, Rear Admiral, US Navy retired. Uh, he was in charge of John Kerry and the Swift Boat Vet guys. Uh, Van Odell is with us; served with John Kerry in Vietnam, he was a Gunners Mate … Scott Swett is a part of the uh, Swift Vets … uh, what is the name of your web site again?
Scott: The name of the site is swiftvets.com. I’m actually the author of another site, wintersoldier.com that focuses
Hannity [talking over]: ok, on that book
Scott: … Kerry’s war crimes
Hannity: hang on one second, we’ll take a break, we’ll come back with all these guys … and of course we gotta ask the question why they decided to come out and talk about their time with John Kerry [segues into station break]
Hannity: ... served with John Kerry in Vietnam, and Scott Swett is with us, he's a webmaster for Swift Boat Vets and, uh, they came out with this ad. Now ... let me play the admission of Kerry, where he admits he committed atrocities and get your reaction to this, guys:
Kerry: ... yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities that thousands of other soldiers have committed, in that: I took part in shootings in free-fire zones; I conducted harassment and interdiction fire; I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted, ordered to use; I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages ...
Hannity: He also admits he violated the Geneva Convention. Uh, Admiral Hoffman, what do you think of what you just heard?
Adm. Hoffman: ... well, I think he's lying. He may have com... what he did himself, that's his business. But when he starts accusing his shipmates, we have in that division he was in, there were 23, uh, officers - there were 25, 2 are now deceased - of those 25, only one supports him to this day.
Hannity: Admiral, you mean one of the 25 Swift Boat guys
Adm. Hoffman: That's correct, his peer ONC's, the officers in charge, the same, uh, same position that he held
Hannity: Only one in twenty five?
Adm. Hoffman: One in 25 ... well, 2 are deceased, so we'll say one in 23.
Hannity: One in 23 ... Van, I mean ... I mean, is it possible - you were serving with him - you never saw him commit an atrocity, you never saw him burn a village.
Van: I never, I never saw a village, a friendly village burn. What I saw was, when we found VC hootches full of weapons or contraband, we burned those. But to go into a village or to fire in a village didn't happen. As a matter of fact, there were times that we withheld fire even though we were receiving fire because civilians were in the way. Ah, we weren't going about there willy-nilly; we had missions, specific missions, and we went and carried those out in the highest traditions of the Navy.
Hannity: Alright, let me ask you this, then, because this new book and we're going to have the first interview on this program next week, Unfit For Command, Swift Boat Vets speak about John Kerry with John O'Neill, in this book, in ah, it is claimed that Kerry earned his Silver Star by killing a lone, fleeing teenage VietCong in a loin cloth [garbled] that upon his command, numerous small animals were slaughtered by heavy caliber machine guns, and, uh, that he ran around with a Zippo lighter, burning up an entire innocent village. Is that, er, I mean he admits to doing that, is that the case; were you there for that?
Van: I was not there for any of those incidents. I do know that he, he shot the Vietnamese in the loin cloth, who had already been shot by his machine gunner ..
Hannity: Wait a minute, you saw this?
Van: No, I heard of it happening from his crew.
Hannity: Now explain what you heard had happened
Van: that, uh, that the young boy had already been, been aiming a rocket at them but the machine gunner had caught him in, in the legs and had shot him up pretty bad. And that Kerry went around and then fired and, and killed him at that point.
Adm. Hoffman[???]: Sean, that probably doesn't qualify as a war crime and I'm not sure anybody is claiming that ...
Hannity [talking over]: yeah, that doesn't sound like one to me ... I would openly admit that but, ah
Scott[?]: Sean, I was, I was involved in helping put the book together, and uh, one, one of the things that it focuses on is, Kerry is trying to blame the atrocities - he's not admitting to atrocities - he's saying that the entire US military structure was systematically committing atrocities ...
Hannity: No, no, no, that's a separate thing, he said, you just heard him in his own voice saying "I commited atrocities" ...
Scott[?]: Yes, "as did thousands of others"
Hannity: Yeah, but he says "I burn villages" so, I'm uh, you know I ...
Scott[?]: "that we were ordered to do"
Hannity: Ok, so
Scott[?]: Its the orders he wants to place the focus on
Hannity: Alright, so, but the point is if he did these things and he violated the Geneva Convention, and he committed atrocities, does he not have a responsibility to say no ... I mean, Admiral? I mean, do you know of any orders to burn villages? ... of innocent people?
Adm. Hoffman: No, of course there were no such orders. It's also worth noting that since Kerry was running around with a film crew all the time that, if he had atrocities to film its astounding that he didn't get any footage of that, instead of just him walking around with a gun.
Hannity: Alright, I got a lot more to get to with you guys, um, and I got to take a break ... we have a hard break coming up here ... and, uh, Van, by the way is a gunners mate, served with Kerry, you're gonna be on TV tonight ... and we got the other side of that debate ... and we're going to show you the latest poll numbers on Hannity & Colmes tonight [segue into break]
[local station late in rejoining show due to weather alerts and a traffic fatality on I-95]
Hannity: ... the left, doesn't want to hear the stories of these other guys. Why can't these men have the right to say what they want to say ... and let people decide for themselves. They, I ...
Roy Hoffman is with us, Rear Admiral, US Navy Retired; Van O'Dell, uh, who served, uh and he will be with us on TV tonight - we're gonna show you the ad - if you haven't seen the actual ad, we're gonna show it to you in full tonight; we didn't show the full ad last night, we're gonna show the full tonight. And Scott Swett is with us, works on the web site for these guys, Swift Boat Vets.
Alright, uh, here's what, I want to ask you, because there's so much to get to here. um, one of the first questions I want to ask you, has any reported from The New York Times, The Washington Post ... gentlemen, prior to now have they interviewed you about your experiences with John Kerry?
Adm Hoffman: Not until yesterday
Hannity: Who is that, Admiral Hoffman?
Adm. Hoffman: yes
Hannity: How closely, admiral, you, you worked with him from a distance, did you not?
Adm. Hoffman: No, I did not work from him, ah, a distance, I'd like to clarify that. I've heard that; I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it. I operated those boats in close proximity to him many times ...
Hannity: Well, because, you know its been printed otherwise, I have an article here in front of me that says the opposite, so it's important that we clarify that. So you saw John Kerry up close and personal.
Adm. Hoffman: Did I ride on his boat? No. Did I ride on boats that were close to him? Yes.
Hannity: What ... what do you want the American people to know about him?
Adm. Hoffman: I want them to know the truth. And the reason for that is simple. First of all, in 1971 ... but, then when he announces himself for candidacy for the chief officer or, the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces in January of this year ... it set all of us back quite severely; we couldn't believe that this man could possibly be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. So I started organizing the group back then, and particularly when his biography by Douglas Brinkley, Tour of Duty ... when that came out, it was so full of, of exaggerations, distortions of fact, and outright lies ... that it's more .. instead of calling it a biography, they should have called it a novel. Because of, er, the one good thing was it gave us something concrete to bite into.
Hannity: Now, you mention that of the 23, what, Officers In Charge of the Swift Boat guys
Adm. Hoffman: That's in his division ...
Hannity: That's in his division ... of the 23 that are still alive, there's only one supporting his candidacy for President ...
Scott: That is correct, that is Skip Barker, who works for his campaign.
Hannity: And Van, I want to go back to, you know, I mean, look, I think you guys know, that, that the beginning of the trashing of you guys has begun. You guys are gonna have your reputations smeared, your characters impugned, your motives are going to be questioned. Alright, Van, you served closely with John Kerry for three of the four months he was there, 75% of his time. you are disputing his record of what happened in Vietnam as are many of your fellow Vietnam Vets. Why did you decide to get involved in this?
Van: I'll tell you what, I started to get involved in this when he announced that he was going to be a candidate for President of the United States and be Commander in Chief. Ah, before that it didn't matter. He was in Massachusetts and that was their choice to have him. Right now, ah, I'm a father and a grandfather, and my kids may be in the military ... my grandchildren. And it's important that we have a Commander in Chief that is fit to serve and I decided to get involved with this because I felt, at that time, that I was being called back to service by my Country, to tell the truth about what actually happened in Vietnam with John Kerry. And what happened when he came back and the lies that he told.
Hannity: So specifically a lot of this is rooted in the allegations that he made against his fellow soldiers when he said that his fellow soldiers had told him stories, that they had raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, that his fellow Vietnam Vets cut off limbs, blew up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, raised villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan - that's all, you're saying that is all [verbal emphasis] a lie.
Van: That is all a lie [verbal emphasis]. I can tell you I, I served with these guys and they're all honorable people and we even took fire sometimes and didn't fire back because civilians were in the way. We were not out there killing civilians; we were out there on missions. And ...
Hannity: yeah
Van: and to be lied about that, it just , it just really, really tears at your guts - it's the same type of trashing you were talking about they're gonna do now. He was trashing back then and there was no basis in fact for it because there were no reports ever filed by any officer in that area, of atrocities.
Scott: Sean ...
Hanity: Yes sir
Scott: ... I'd just like to note that Admiral Hoffman and Mr. O'Dell fought under fire in combat conditions - I don't think they're going to be intimidated by name calling from the other side. I'd like to touch real quickly on your earlier point, that the, uh, left appears to be bent on silencing these guys ... I, uh, imagine that you are aware that the Kerry, uh, campaign attorneys have contacted all TV stations and insisted that they not run the ads.
Hannity: Well, I heard that just prior to coming on air today Uh, have you been able to confirm that and get a copy of that letter?
Scott: Uh, I haven't seen the letter but I heard that from several sources. It's also my understanding that the packages that went out to TV stations with the ad contained, are backed 60 pages of sworn statements, contain book excerpts and military records.
Hannity: So what are they trying to intimidate your Vietnam Vets, uh, and by the way, I can tell you right now if anyone threatens them with a lawsuit, I know for a fact that Mark Levin of the Landmark Legal Foundation will race to their defense.
Scott: I'm sure he will; I don't think they're trying to intimidate the Vets so much as they're trying to intimidate the, uh, TV stations
Hannity: TV stations, but in essence they really are tying to go after the vets 'cause they're the ones they don't want their story to be told in this ad. Uh, hm, let me tell you right now ... Van, you're going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight ... and, immediately following you, you know he has this so-called band of brothers ... Jim Rassmun [sp?] and I've interviewed him before - he's the Vietnam Vet who Kerry claims saved his life [sic - wasn't it the other way around?] and won the Bronze Star. He has a very different story for you. What do you way to him?
Van: Well, I'll tell you what, there are a couple of things that I can refute ... if you, you remember at the convention and other places, he said he was in the water alone, that all the fleet had left and zipped down the river. That couldn't have happened because the incident that caused him to fall in the water ... was Kerry's boat taking off at high speed because the 3 boat had been mined; the 3 boat was dead in the water.
Hannity: You mean you were there for this instance?
Van: I was there. I was there. I laid down the first cover fire and I quit firing because we weren't receiving any fire.
Hannity: So why is Rassmun saying that Kerry saved his life? But you're saying that it's absolutely false?
Van: I have no idea what his motives are
[Adm Hoffman???] [overtalk] Rassmun lied [emphatic]
Van: ... well he pulled him out of the water, yes he did pull him out of the water, but let me tell you something, Sean, there were three other people in the water that day. Our boat picked up two of them, Larry Furlow's [sp?] 51 boat picked up the other one.
Hannity: yeah
Van: There ... and nobody received medals for that because that was the job that we did. But we were not under intense fire - another lie. 5000 meters of fire along that river? That's longer than Seminary Ridge along Gettysburg. We couldn't have survived 5000 meters of small-arms fire; we would all be dead in those unarmored boats and we ... [cross talk] no return fire.
Hannity: Let me ask you both this question, The New York Times, and I think Joe Conason was one of them, uh, I got a report from somebody today , uh, I'm not surprised but I haven't seen the article yet, but they're suggesting, the New York Times in particular, that you guys are motivated by, by politics and they point to this Texas Republican ... who contributed to your web site and commercial ... are all of you involved in this web site, this commercial, are you guys all Republicans, is there any politics to play here?
Adm. Hoffman [over the others]: Absolutely not [emphatic] We have stated from the very beginning that ... we are not connected with the Republican party, the DemocRATic Party [editor's privilege], or independent Party in any way whatsoever.
Hannity: yeah
Adm. Hoffman: yes, we do get contributions from $25 to $100,000
Hannity: just so people?? Of course the pro-Kerry groups are funded by George Soros and no one seems to suggest that, uh, this taints the left's motives and if I were you, I would be offended that these people would suggest that your integrity and honesty can be bought. Uh, you know what's amazing to me is you look at the numbers, your numbers are staggering. And this is what I'd urge people to pay attention to, if only one of the 23 officers of the Swift Boats only one supports Kerry and the rest are against him. Well, that does that, I mean there's something there there.
Adm. Hoffman: Not only that but there's only one officer or enlisted man of the 3,600 men that I had under my command, that includes the aviation and Coast Guard, only one bugged out in 4 months: John Kerry [emphatically].
Hannity: What do you mean, tell me what you mean, oh, you mean that left after a short time in the service.
Adm. Hoffman: After he, that third purple heart which you've just been talking about, the Bronze Star, which was bogus all the way, that was his ticket out of there, that's what he had been planning all the way.
Hannity: Explain that for our audience - you're saying that his Purple Hearts were not earned.
Adm. Hoffman: That is correct
Hannity: Explain that to, to people that don't know what you're talking about.
Adm. Hoffman: Alright ... I think that Van O'Dell told you that there was one explosion - a controlled mine under PCF3. No other boats were damaged. There was only ONE explosion [verbal emphasis]. Kerry breaks out of the fire zone and goes downstream. He's the only one that left the scene, the rest of them are trying to save the boat number 3 and pick the men up out of the water and so forth. Kerry didn't come back until he was sure there wasn't any shore fire - and there wasn't, there never was any shore fire.
Adm. Hoffman: Now ... in his own report he said that he had a minor contusion on his right arm and he had shrapnel in his butt. Now ... when, an underwater mine does not have any shrapnel. So, where did the shrapnel come from? I'll tell you where it came from. Before that operation when he was up the river, he and Rassmun tossed a concussion grenade into a sampan with loaded rice [sic]. He didn't duck fast enough and he got some of the rice up his rear end. And that was the wound that he had. But he made his after-action report, he reported that as shrapnel and that is an outright ...
[weather alert!!! ... Tornado Warning ... pesky waterspouts in Port Canaveral (also funnel clouds over the Merritt Island Mall)!!! dollar to donuts Hoffman was going to say "lie" but it gives me a great time marker]
Hannity: ... it, hang on one second, guys, we'll come back for one final segment and I promise we'll let you go. Now, Van O'Dell served with Kerry and Roy Hoffman, both who served with Kerry in Vietnam ... very different stories to tell ... we're going to show you this ad on TV on Hannity & Colmes, Van O'Dell is going to be on ... and this other guy Jim Rassmun, he's the one guy that takes Kerry's side in this, he's going to be on, we'll have both sides [segues into break]
Ping .. the thread now has the complete transcript - word for word - in three parts. See above. It is nuclear!
Senator McCain,
What is it that you don't like about the Swiftboat Vet's advertisement?
Are you in a position to question ANYTHING those vets have to say about Kerry?
Are you upset that the ad is effective?
Did Kerry promise you a job if he's elected?
If you had been on any of those swiftboats working with Kerry, or in his command, wouldn't you feel qualified to assess his performance?
Do you approve of Kerry's behavior after returning from Vietnam?
Former USAF Sgt. 1971-1974
(46350)
Sincerely,
Laurence J.
[joining late, sorry]
Adm. Hoffman: ... comments in one way or the other, that were favorable - they would consider it, because- they said consider, he didn't say he was going to do it - because they were going to issue a new paperback edition of the book [ed. Kerry's bio?]. And, at that time he said it was going to be done in two weeks but I've never seen it.
Hannity: Yeah Ah, what do you think the purpose for that call was?
Adm. Hoffman: Well, I think he was .. that wasn't the first time he called me, he called me long before he announced his candidacy and trying to feel me out to where I might be, he was probably getting me, trying to get me to back off or even join his team.
Hannity: Yeah, but that's not going to happen. Now, is, of the 23 guys, is the one that is only for him, is that Rassmun?
Scott: No that's Skip Barker [sp?]
Hannity: Skip Barker
Adm. Hoffman: Skip Barker was another ONC. He lives [lived?] down in Selma, Alabama.
Hannity: But when we say 23, we're talking about the officers, correct?
Adm. Hoffman: Yeah, yes, the officers in charge of the boats.
Hannity: So these other guys that are supporting him are just what, some of the enlisted guys?
[multiple voices]: yes
Adm. Hoffman: yes, they were his actual crew members ...
Hannity: OK
Adm. Hoffman: ... they were all there at the same time. I think they probably the longest any one of them served with him was the last two months.
Hannity: Alright, Admiral Hoffman, thank you for being with us, I'm sure talk in the future. Van O'Dell, we'll see you on Hannity & Colmes tonight, we're going to show this ad tonight, also my exclusive interview with Gov. Weld on tonight, and Scott, thank you and ... what's the website? quick! quick!
Scott: www.swiftvets.com
Hannity: when we come back we're gonna get your reaction [segue]
TRANSCRIPT ENDS
Think about the impact of the SwiftVets advertisement.
http://www.swiftvets.com/
To most of us it has a tremendous impact, but does it even have an impact on swing voters?
Good question. So I thought about it. Kerry has a couple of Vets that served with him touring along his side. Why should we not believe them instead?
Simple, very simple. Picture that you are retired and an ex-coworker asked you to tour the country gratis? Five star hotels, private jets, swimming pools and movie stars. Cool huh?
If you respected the person and thought him qualified you would probably be happy to join him.
However, rather than join him you mount a campaign that raised 1/2 million dollars and created an advertisement with numerous medal winners who knew him and are now stating that he is a liar and incompetent to be President.? These men stayed out of every Senatorial election even though they were invited by Kerry’s opponents. They say that this isn’t political, and that they don’t care about Massachusetts. They do care about America.
No free hotels or jet rides, just working in the grassroot trenches raising money to try to protect out country.
Who are you going to believe, Kerry's sellouts or the real deal with the resolve to continue to uphold their pledge concerning enemies foreign and domestic?
Tom Eaker
05-Aug-04