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To: callmejoe; All

I would like to think that our response to such a scenario (another attack along the lines of 9/11 or a "day of terror") is correct, but I'm not so sure. Look at the numbers; even though most here strongly support President Bush and all he stands for, the race is still too close to call.

I have almost daily discussions with co-workers about the terrorist threats/upcoming elections, and I can tell you that the numbers are split almost down the middle. Most/too many who are my age or younger have no stomach for war and all that it entails. They don't understand the realities that "the greatest generation" lived through. So many today spout the ACLU line of crap that it's sickening. They fail to realize that the personal freedoms they so enjoy were purchased at the unbelievable cost of the blood of patriots. Defending their own property/lives? Yeah, most would. But defending the property/lives of others? Doubtful.

Sure, there will be the patriotic few who defend the many, but even those heroes may receive a "Vietnam homecoming." After all, aren't we supposed to solve the world's problems with just a little more love? (sarcasm)

We have become a nation of privilege that knows the price of everything and the cost of nothing. I hope and pray that we have time to come to our senses on our own, instead of having the rude awakening that is planned for us by those who hate our very existence.


3,174 posted on 08/07/2004 8:36:40 PM PDT by liberallyconservative
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To: liberallyconservative

Interesting developments for Iraqi Shi'ites:

Sistani Away, US In Anti-Sadr Decisive Battle: Report

Sistani's sudden London visit raised many questions

BAGHDAD, August 7 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) As fierce fighting continued Saturday, August 7, for the third day running between US troops and fighters loyal to firebrand Shiite scholar Moqtada Al-Sadr, Iraq's highest-ranking Shiite scholar, Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, headed to London for "heart treatment".

London-based daily Al-Hayat quoted Saturday an unnamed Iraqi official as implying that the US forces were seeking to eradicate Sadr forces in Najaf once and for all, in the absence of Sistani.

"Sistani flew to London on a short notice as he wanted to be away from Najaf at this time that witnesses decisive fighting between the US troops and the Iraqi police on one hand, and the Shiite Muslim militiamen on the other hand. (snip)

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-08/07/article07.shtml

_________________________________________________________________________


Sadr invited to stand in election
From correspondents in Baghdad
08aug04

IRAQ'S interim Prime Minister has invited radical cleric Moqtada Sadr to run for office in next year's elections, while offering a limited amnesty to some elements of the insurgency.

"I invite from this platform Moqtada Sadr to participate in the elections next year and if the Iraqi people decide to pick him as a leader, this is the choice of the Iraqi people," Iyad Allawi said overnight.

"The political process is open for everybody who abides by the rule of law."

He said he had received "positive signals" from Sadr without providing further details.

Mr Allawi described the fighters clashing with US and Iraqi forces in Najaf over the past three days as outlaws who have no direct connection to Sadr himself.

"What has been happening in Najaf in the past 48 hours involves elements backed by some media outlets that are trying to hinder our progress and disrupt the normal functioning of the Government," he said.

"We are clamping down on outlaws, not innocent Iraqis, and we plan to continue doing that."

Mr Allawi confirmed that 1200 militiamen in Najaf had surrendered to Iraqi security forces as announced by the country's general police directorate yesterday.

He said preliminary investigations showed that at least 400 people in this group were former inmates in Baghdad's notorious Abu Gharib prison before they were released by ousted president Saddam Hussein prior to the March 2003 US-led invasion of Iraq.

"They are going back there," he said.

Mr Allawi thanked members of the Al-Ghazalat, Bani Hassan, Al-Shibl and Jubburi tribes in Najaf for backing Iraqi forces in their fight against the militiamen.

The US military has said 300 militiamen were killed in the Najaf clashes, while the province's governor Adnan al-Zorfi said the toll was as high 400.

But Mr Allawi refused to confirm either toll.

"I just have not seen the figures yet," said a visibly angry Mr Allawi after being pressed several times on the matter.

He was flanked by Interior Minister Falah al-Naqib and his deputy Adnan al-Asadi, Defence Minister Hazem al-Shalan, Minister of State Adnan al-Janabi and National Security Advisor Muwafaq al-Rubaie

Besides offering an olive branch to Sadr, Mr Allawi officially launched a limited amnesty to some elements of Iraq's insurgency.

"We have issued today an amnesty to those who have committed minor crimes," he said.

He said the amnesty would cover previous regime elements, individuals who were caught in possession of light weapons and explosive materials, those who concealed information about insurgents or sheltered them and those who financed them or participated in actions that threatened the country's security.

It was not immediately clear if the amnesty would cover any of the 5000 prisoners held without trial in US-run detention facilities in Abu Gharib and Camp Bucca in the south.

Mr Allawi said those that qualified for the amnesty had 30 days to come clean.

"This gives those people the chance to integrate back into society instead of pursuing false hopes."

Mr Allawi's government hopes the amnesty will help quell the stubborn insurgency that shows no sign of abating 16 months after the fall of Saddam.

http://www.themercury.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,10380995,00.html


3,178 posted on 08/07/2004 8:55:42 PM PDT by Honestly (There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.)
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To: liberallyconservative

Very true and very sad, but, very well said lc.


3,204 posted on 08/07/2004 9:57:03 PM PDT by Oorang ( Those who trade liberty for security have neither)
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To: liberallyconservative; All

Damn good post, and an excellent rant on what is really killing our chances of survival. It is us.

Ironic that the ME folks I know make the same kind of rants against Americans..."weak..sheltered..spoiled..etc" as you do. These EFnK liberals are the real reason the American people have lost their respect among the enemy....NOT the actions of our President.

Our enemies know the difference.


3,207 posted on 08/07/2004 10:06:17 PM PDT by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: liberallyconservative

After 3,000 dead on 9/11, America changed forever, It will change again when the casualties are ten or one hundred times that amount.

Even if each of the 3,000 victims knew 100 friends and family whose lives would be shattered by the loss, that is still only one-tenth of one percent of the American population (roughly 300,000 out of roughly 300,000,000).

With the coming "single day of horror", those of us who survive will each know either an acquaintance, a friend, or family that perished or was forver maimed/scarred or we will have someone close to us who is in that position.

I cannot tell you what level of casualties forces us into a mass revenge mindset (30,000 or 300,000 or 3,000,000) but I can tell you there is a number.

And at that point, *no one* will be able to control what happens as it escalates. We will all be swept up in an apocalyptic whirpool where everyone will lose. For whoever survives will wish they had not.

They are trying to hijack the Islamic world. We have to help the passengers take back the planes.

Like we are in Afghanistan and Iraq.


3,224 posted on 08/07/2004 11:40:35 PM PDT by callmejoe
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To: liberallyconservative

We have become a nation of privilege that knows the price of everything and the cost of nothing. I hope and pray that we have time to come to our senses on our own, instead of having the rude awakening that is planned for us by those who hate our very existence.


WOW! Applause!!!


3,262 posted on 08/08/2004 7:45:50 AM PDT by JustPiper (I hate the assembly of evildoers - I will not sit with the wicked)
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