Posted on 08/02/2004 5:12:15 PM PDT by missyme
Kara'ites may see themselves as the modern Saducees, but that does not make them so.
Why do you keep calling me a liar when you proceed to post C&P material that proves I'm telling the truth on you? And why are personal insults and abuse so necessary for you?
I'm afraid I don't have the time to C&P as much as you (I have both a job and a life), but thanks for proving that you want CHRISTIANS IN ISRAEL JAILED FOR PREACHING THE GOSPEL, and that you wish death on them (whether you're repeating someone else's clever admonition or not).
You may continue to believe that repeatedly mislabeling me a liar will make it true. But be assured that I will continue sharing the word of Christ to you and all others (and the latter actually IS True).
The blessings of Christ the Messiah to you, SJackson...
No, you are saying that it is so chilling that anyone would advocate banning any activities under free speech. I guess it's only free speech if it has to do with evengelizing to us hellbound Jews and our kids, eh?
I believe in freedom of speech for everybody -- christians, jews, buddists, atheists, etc. Apparently, if you believe in free speech, you don't think the freedom should extend to christians.
Here's the difference between you and me. I think you should have the freedom to say -- even to kids -- that christianity is wrong. But you DON'T think I should have the freedom to say that christianity is right.
But please, could you answer my questions?
Why not be happy for Jews who are observant and teaching their children Torah and Talmud? Would you discourage Jewish parents from trying to raise Jewish children and keep them in their faith? Would you prefer it if they did not so that your proselytizing might be easier?
I can respect that, but even if you beleive Jesus Christ is not the Messiah he was man without sin or harm to others no one else can make that claim....
Mohammed was a child molester a violent man.
Jesus was a Rabbi a teacher he taught "Good Things"
He never taught the people not to obey TORAH he taught for people to love the Sinner...
So Jesus is not comparable in love compassion and forgiveness to any other human being.
Wether he is the Messiah or not (I beleive hs is) that will be revealed in GOD's time.
Jesus was crucified by the Romans and he did not condemn one of them how many human beings do you know in history that would do that I beg to say no one..
No I think Sodomites are Gay Men. Jersusalem should not let them hold there Annual Gay Pride Festival in 2005..I am sure you would agree with that...
Sometimes it is a neccesity to turn you back on your earthly families however you should never turn your back on the one True Living GOD, that is the biggest Sin a human being can commit..
I wrote in an earlier post in case you did not see that one that I think Jews who (Adults of Course) believe that Jesus is the Promised Messiah of Israel are the best ones to engage in dialouge with other Jews about all issues regarding Jesus, that is how it all started....
In Ancient Israel Jews who believed in Jesus were accepted in the Synagogues they were just another sect of Judiasm, in case you did not know even after the Death and Reseurection of Jesus the Apostles still had no clue how to preach the Word of Jesus to the Gentiles because they still thought of Gentiles as "Dirty Pigs"
It wasn't until the Holy Spirit came upon them they started to reach some gentiles but even then there was great controversy with other Jews regarding the following of TORAH for gentiles...
If Jesus was never taken to the Gentile world. I believe we would have Judiasm that would encompass the Messiahship of Jesus and the rest of the world would be Un-Richetous Gentiles and Pagan religions....
I understand what you are saying and I am beginning to understand better. I suppose if it is written, it will be, despite my or anyone's efforts. I was probably a bit too zealous in my wish to convert Jews. I still think evangelism should be legal, but I leave that to Messianic Jews. It is hard enough trying to win over people without faith at all. I would rather spend my efforts enlightening people who need God rather than fighting to convert someone who already has a beleif system.
I do understand that Judaism is a local, tribal religion and that Christianity is global in nature. But do understand that God of the Israelites is also my Lord, who looks after me and keeps me safe. Those who wish to convert Jews in their heart are doing it not out of malice, but love. I hope you aren't offended, but Revelations says in the end times, the Israelites will know Christ is the Messiah. I figure Jesus knows it will take a miraculous effort to convert Jews! I am sure when He returns, the Israelites will not deny Him.
unfortunately, the government is fairly secular and there is a leftist Supereme Court imagining a Constitution on the model of the USSR.
In Ancient Israel Jews who believed in Jesus were accepted in the Synagogues they were just another sect of Judiasm, in case you did not know even after the Death and Reseurection of Jesus the Apostles still had no clue how to preach the Word of Jesus to the Gentiles because they still thought of Gentiles as "Dirty Pigs"
At first they were treated like an apostate sect. Later, they were seen as little different than those from the first break in the Israelite faith, Samaritans. This view changed when the Roman Empire became Christian.
It wasn't until the Holy Spirit came upon them they started to reach some gentiles but even then there was great controversy with other Jews regarding the following of TORAH for gentiles...
Jews in diaspora always preached to gentiles. If you will note, many Egyptians joined the Israelites, althiugh they turned back.
If Jesus was never taken to the Gentile world. I believe we would have Judiasm that would encompass the Messiahship of Jesus and the rest of the world would be Un-Richetous Gentiles and Pagan religions.
Perhaps. On the other hand, many sects were formed and died. Are there any Essenes left today?
Thanks for your reply....
A Couple of things you said from this post...I really feel if Jews thought that believing in Jesus as the Son of GOD was a pagan belief, I would welcome there preaching to conversion, one reason I think they cannot IMHO is that today the Messianic movement is growing like a wildfire and many Jewish believers are not abandoning Judaism for another sect of Christianity and this is causing some hostile feelings as well as confusement I think in Judaism as a whole....
From the reading I have done about the first believers in Jesus (Jews) is that they were not apostate they were welcomed in the temple to preach they were not called christians but were called "Followers of the Way" I think you have to remember the apostles and there followers which were many who came to the temple to hear of Jesus' message were not adandoning Judaism they were still honoring the sabbath and the dietary laws, and reading from TORAH...
The preaching to Gentiles was how to bring them into the convenant that the Jews already had with GOD.
My understanding is that the Jews of diaspora who preached to gentiles were preaching monotheism not how to bring them in a convenant with GOD. That is why there was such a great divide with the early Jews and Gentiles because some felt gentiles needed to honor the sabbath and dietary laws.
In any event I things went pretty much haywire when the early church through anything that was remotely Jewish about "Followers of the Way" out of a New Religion they created with Jesus......Many churches I think now are learning this that is why the Catholic Church and many other denominations of Christianity are trying to incorporate different Jewish rituals into there service because they are realizing the Jewishness that truly is at the core of there belief...
Do you think Messianic Jews are apostate?
From the reading I have done about the first believers in Jesus (Jews) is that they were not apostate they were welcomed in the temple to preach they were not called christians but were called "Followers of the Way" I think you have to remember the apostles and there followers which were many who came to the temple to hear of Jesus' message were not adandoning Judaism they were still honoring the sabbath and the dietary laws, and reading from TORAH...
Believing that Jesus was the Messiah was not apostacy. It was only the cult that grew around Jesus, holding that he rose from the dead and was the son of God, that was apostacy.
My understanding is that the Jews of diaspora who preached to gentiles were preaching monotheism not how to bring them in a convenant with GOD. That is why there was such a great divide with the early Jews and Gentiles because some felt gentiles needed to honor the sabbath and dietary laws.
In general, Jews in diaspora communities reached out to their neighbors. This varied from teaching them about Judaism to promote tolerance, to moving the pagans from idolitary towards the Noachide code, and in many cases to full conversion. There have been a number of nations that converted to or were dominated by an elite that converted to Judaism. In Arabia there was Himayar and Yathrib in Arabia. Ethiopia was once ruled by Jews. The Lemba of Africa are ruled by a caste of Cohens. Likewise, survivors of the kingdom of Cyrene, crushed by the Romans in 117, moved into Berbery north Africa and began to dominate. In 694, the Berber tribes were lead by a Queen Kahena in their struggle against Arab expansion.
Perhaps the most famous converts were the Khazar nobility which covnerted between 739 and 860.
Do you think Messianic Jews are apostate?
They are just as Apostate as Frankists and followers of Shabattai Zvi in the 17th century, or "Kabbalists" and Judeao-Buddhists are today.
Good post..
Some history I was not aware of...
But I would like to ask you this when you say the Jews (Ancient Biblically) were not preaching so much to there neighbors as they were more tolerant (If I am understanding you correctly)then in regards to the Samaritans who were hated by the Jews at that period in time and were treated like 2nd class citizens, Jesus had went up to a Samaitan woman who was drinking from the well and Jesus spoke with her, the Samaritan woman said ""Why are you a Jew speaking to me?" Was not Jesus trying to show the Jews of his time a way to reach out to others that the Pharisees would deem as Apostate or Sinners?
Also when you say it is only Apostate to believe Jesus rose from the dead or is worshipped as the Son of GOD, what information tells you differently? meaning what do you believe happened to his body after he had died? and how do you account for the multitudes of people who saw him in the flesh after he died? "Saul on the road to Damascus" I only ask you this because this is what I have studied in New Testament Scriptures and of course some other things that have happened to me personally with a belief in Jesus.
I understand and have read accounts from within Judiasm why they do not think Jesus was Messaih because they interpet Isaiah in a different way then what my understanding is, but I have never read or heard Rabbi's say anything on what document proof they have on what actually happened to Jesus's body after he died or how they acocunt for the hundreds of Jews who witnessed him after he had rose from the dead?
Thank you for your reply...
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