[whattajoke]

Re: bats.

Give it up ModernMan... back several posts, Havoc thinks that he should see this: "a bat with no wings, and then multiple stages of the bat with non-working wings, then shazam, wings."

A bat with no wings, dear Havoc, is not a bat. A bat with non working wings, dear Havoc never existed as a reproductive line of bats. Surely the flaps of skin between the fingers (Unlike bird wings, because, y'know, bats aren't birds... or rodents) gave proto bats an advantage. Say, oh I don't know, gliding. Like those other insectivore mammals that glide? Come to think of it, flying squirrels and flying foxes must give creationists fits.

Oh, who am I kidding.

[Modernman]

Give it up ModernMan... back several posts, Havoc thinks that he should see this: "a bat with no wings, and then multiple stages of the bat with non-working wings, then shazam, wings."

Of course, Creationists also fail to notice that bat wings are different than bird wings. So, we've already established that the Creator is inefficient (vestigial bones in snakes and whales) and now we can see that he forgets old designs and goes to the trouble of re-inventing the wheel, or the wing. Since bats evolved after birds, why not just use the bird wing structure?

[VadeRetro]

Like those other insectivore mammals that glide? Come to think of it, flying squirrels and flying foxes must give creationists fits.

Don't forget the "flying lemur" (colugo). Not really a lemur and can't really fly, but it's a very, very good glider. I like this photo (stole it from a National Geographic) because it also shows how humanlike the infant offspring of a not-very-humanlike prosimian primate can look. That's another one of those independent lines of evidence that doesn't exist and anyway wouldn't hold up in court so we can say it doesn't exist.

[Havoc]

How do you know a bat without wings never existed. Wouldn't this fly in the face of evolution. How did the Bat get wings? Oh, now it wasn't bats that never had wings, it was protobats (which of course you don't have any examples of). Oops, suddenly it isn't so funny that I should express the fact that you guys don't have transitions showing the protobat growing wings out of evolutionary accident or need. Evolution doesn't seem to create anything useful does it. And btw, why would I particularly care one way or another if either foxes or squirrels can glide? Cats land on their feet when the fall pretty much without fail. Neat trick; but, not especially indicative of a change from what cats have always done. Nor is there any evidence that they've ever done otherwise. Oh, wait, there's that tangeable proof thing lingering around again. How'd that happen..