Brats! Why Are So Many Parents Afraid To Say "No?"

LA Times, via Memphis Flyer ^ | July 30, 2004 | Martin Booe

[BluegrassScholar]

Carrie is 2 years old, with curly brown hair and Windex-blue eyes. In a still-life portrait, she would be adorable. In three dimensions, she's a cross between a Gerber baby and the Tasmanian devil. Bang. Bang, bang, bang, and bang and bang.

That's the noise of the plastic water cup she is whacking against the ceramic-topped table of a neighborhood coffeehouse whose concrete floors function like an echo chamber. If she had a hammer she would have destroyed the table by now, and I'm pretty sure her parents would've let her. People look up from their lattes, squint at the diminutive figure making the big, ear-splitting noise, and try to continue with their newspapers or conversations. The banging goes on for a good 10 minutes. Normally, I would say something -- I'm not shy about these things -- but I'm curious to know just how long her parents, with whom I'm having coffee, will let this go. The answer: Indefinitely. They don't even seem to notice. Maybe they're just used to it?

On some primal level, Carrie must be offended that she's not the center of attention. There is anger in her banging, along with what I read as malice. As she grows even more restive, her father lowers her to the floor. Still clutching the cup, Carrie crawls through the room, pounding on the concrete floor as she goes along, giving everyone an up-close earful of her drum solo.

A few weeks later, I'm at a party, mostly adults with a few kids sprinkled in, among them the volcanically unruly 5-year-old son of a friend. As I squat down to greet him, he responds by biting me in the arm, leaving teeth marks through a shirt and a sweater. I am just about to spank his little behind when I realize I'm in dangerous territory. People go to jail for that these days.

Full story . . .

[LegionofDorkness]

My wife and I always explain to my 7 year old twins that around the house its fine to be a little obnoxious and act like kids. But it is drilled into their heads that there are certain times that you have to show respect and simply be quiet and stand still.

My latest story comes from attending a memorial service for my wife's grandmother. My kids were very good and stood right next to us the whole service while at the cemetary. (A gentle nudge once or twice was needed to stop minimal fidgeting.) Meanwhile, my wife's cousin's kids (same age) where running around the cemetary like it was a playground. No attempt at all to control them and make them show some respect for their departed great grandmother. It was sad and sickening. I made sure to tell my kids afterward that I was very proud of them for being respectful and for not acknowleding their cousin when he kept prodding my kids to join him.

Not surprisingly, my wife's cousins are a bunch of liberals who believe that their kids are brilliant and that kids need to express themselves creatively all the time and not be reigned in by strict discipline.

[jimt]

It seems simple enough to me: as soon as the child enters the world, start to speak your will in a gentle voice, once -- then, without further discussion , quietly impose your will by force.

It works amazingly well. I had to paddle my daughter exactly once. I made sure it hurt, and she never needed it again.

[Kenton]

I notice this phenom in "upscale" areas more often than working class settings. "Joe Lunchbucket" still keeps his kids pretty much in line, but in "yuppie" restaurants you see a lot of parental indulgence.

If I ever open a restaurant, I'm going to put up a sign syaing "Unruly children will be put to work in the scullery".

[LisaMalia]

My kids are now 25 and 23. When they were young, they had their ornery streaks at home, but I strived to make sure they behaved in public. Although they weren't perfect, for the most part they did.

They were also taught to respect their elders and teachers, something that seems to be lost on the youngsters these days. I've heard a child of a family member go up to her dad and say, "You're a loser", and the mom just laughed about it. Unbelievable!

My daughter and son in law are comptemplating starting a family in the distant future, and we have talked about raising kids today. My daughter told the story about being at the grocery, and several shoppers were TRYING to get to the juice section. A mom with a toddler was holding up the line, and this was the conversation:

Mother: "Junior (don't remember the name of the kid), what type of juice do you want this week?"

Junior: Silence

Mother: "Junior honey, what type of juice do you want this week."

Junior: (Pointing randomly) "THAT ONE!"

Mother: Junior, do you mean grape-cranberry juice?

Junior: "NO! That one!"

Mother: "Junior, do you mean Orange-Banana?"

Junior: Bored silence, Junior is now looking across the aisle.

Soooo, you get the just of it. When my kids were little, I KNEW what juice they liked, and if I bought it and they didn't like it, they drank it anyway!

[coder2]

Oh geez... I can relate to the sister-in-law story

My sister-in-law has 3 kids, the oldest just graduated from high school (how, I do not know).

This kid growing up, never had a bedtime, he was allowed to stay up as long as he wanted ---- he stays up all night now, and sleeps during the day.

My s-i-l just shrugs her shoulders and says she can't get him to obey her, so she gives up.

Needless to say, this kid is a major brat at 18 ---- he tells his mom to f'off at frequent intervals.

[Taliesan]

Thank you for your post. It's easy to disregard my comments, since I have only one child, because people can say "oh well you just got a calm one in the gene roulette." But when a parent with several kids says it, it carries more weight. Here is the simple yet shunned truth from your post:

First child training...we have three simple rules for the uninitiated:

1. Obedience should be first time obedience. You'll never yell at your kids.

2. Obedience should be sweet and cheerful.

3. Delayed obedience is disobedience.

That's great! I tell my wife every time you yell, you ARE LOSING.

Now you can either not yell because you have no discipline, or you can not yell because you have discipline.

I'll only add that the trauma associated with this is less the earlier it is started. Some people read this sort of thing and say "that would never work with my 4 year old..."

Well, they are right. If you have waited until the age of 4 to expect full obediance you are going to have a major struggle.

Also, the political observation: most disciplinarian parents are Republicans. I'll leave it at that.

[MizSterious]

When we go to a restaurant, and the hostess asks us "smoking or non" we tell them "please seat us in the no children section. It's not that we don't like children. It's that we dread those children who are undisciplined and ruin our meal. To tell you the truth, I'm more angry at the parents than the kids, who, after all, are only doing what they think is sanctioned by their parents.

[netmilsmom]

>>I made sure to tell my kids afterward that I was very proud of them for being respectful and for not acknowleding their cousin when he kept prodding my kids to join him.<<

Great Point!!!
I make sure I tell my children how unruly other children are in front of those parents.
One of my biggest bug-a-boos is people who eat produce at the grocery store. To me it is stealing. One day a Grandpa was with his 6 year old granddaughter by us. The two of them were happily muching away green grapes. My six year old asked for grapes as well. I said that we could have some at home. She said that the others were eating them.
I announced that it was stealing to eat what we had not paid for.

Grandpa turned red and walked away.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

Well, the week before, we took them to a Chinese restaurant and it was a disaster. My sil refused to put her child in a high chair, which meant the kid was trying to make a break for it. She wouldn't eat unless she was sitting in her mom's lap, and that spelled disaster too. Her tantrums got our almost 2 year old going, etc. The six year old and the newborn were good though.

The following week when they got the ice cream we got to the restaurant just ahead of sil and family and requested 2 highchairs so there was no option. When our niece thought about throwing a fit about something, my husband just gave her a stern look and a 'no' and that was that.

A few nights ago we took our three out again when my mil was visiting--another successful venture :) It's no easy task because our son is rough and tumble and is always full of it (he is in a cast now, but it hasn't slowed him much).

I don't know if I am a great parent, but I am learning by experience! And our oldest two can be a handful, but they are sweet and polite (usually).

[Stag]

OK, maybe I am cynical or way off base - but between permissive parenting and the lack of discipline taught through mandatory military service, we are raising a generation of spoiled brats.

I absolutely HATED my father for disciplining me as a teen and now that I am pushing 40, I thank them every day for it. It helped make me be the man I am today. I know my daughter probably gets annoyed when daddy punishes her for what seems to be a minor thing, especially when her cousins and friends can get away with doing worse and not get in trouble, but I feel she will thank me down the road.

I am a firm believer (now as a parent) that parents should set guidelines and limits to a child,but hey I don't have a PD so what do I know?

[Stag]

By the way, that should read...I don't have a PhD, so what do I know.

[Double Tap]

BTTT for a later read.

[jern]

On the flip side, when I seen parents who have well behaved children in a restaurant. I always make sure to compliment the children when walking about, about what good manners that they have.

[grellis]

My vote for insane parenting is giving your one-year-old three or four choices for everything.

Amen! If anything, kids want and need less choices and more limits. The girl cited in the article, hammering on the table: "BANG! (Draw me a line!) BANG! (Draw me a line!)" Parents who do not set firm limits for their children very early on should not be surprised when the kindergarten teacher starts suggesting Ritalin.

[grellis]

Looky! Someone wrote a thread for me!

[agrace]

This new mother of mine obviously replaced the mother I had growing up who practically killed a Forsynthia bush on my ass.

LOL!

[Taliesan]

The fun is as important as the discipline. The mistake is to let them be at all similar to each other. The fun should rollicking good times; correction should be hell.

A child with constant correction but no fun will be an adult who is incapable of happiness (he can't believe it is possible). A child with no correction will be an adult who is incapable of happiness (he believes it is possible but can never find it).

[petercooper]

I always chuckle when parent use the "timeout". I've even seen little chairs with "Timeout" painted on it. So what, when the timeout is over the little rascal can resume the obnoxious behavior? What a joke.

[Noachian]

Let's not forget the fear put into new parents by a society that views every act of discipline as child abuse. Who can forget the mother who spanked her bratty daughter in a super market and was promptly arrested.

Schools look for any signs of abuse to children, as do doctors and nurses, and in many cases this can lead to legitimate cases of child abuse. However, marks may not be from an abusive family act, but from much needed corporal punishment that's frowned on by social agencies. So, any marks are considered suspicious. The easiest way to avoid marking, then, is not to subject a child to corporal punishment. What parent wants a social worker knocking on the door for an "interview" about her child.

All of this leads to the permissive upbringing that produces bratty children and in turn bratty adults. This is the unintended consequence of government socialism trying to prevent child abuse in a child's family.