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To: William Tell; Hillary's Lovely Legs
"The Second Amendment very clearly protects a "right of the people",

Yes, the right of individuals to bear arms collectively in a militia for the security of a free state are protected from federal infringement.

The second amendment neither protects nor confers the right of individuals to bear arms outside of a militia. That protection comes from the state constitution.

269 posted on 07/30/2004 5:31:19 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
That is simply not what the second amendment says.

The second phrase is not dependent on the first.

273 posted on 07/30/2004 6:12:59 PM PDT by Shanda
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To: robertpaulsen
robertpaulsen said: "Yes, the right of individuals to bear arms collectively in a militia for the security of a free state are protected from federal infringement."

Pray tell, robertpaulsen, how does an individual KEEP and bear arms collectively?

Please explain what part of the remand of the US Supreme Court in US vs. Miller required militia participation on the part of Miller. (Hint: There was none.)

Please explain what requirements must be met for a person to be a member of the unorganized militia and how frequently such militia meets.

282 posted on 07/30/2004 6:57:31 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: robertpaulsen
The second amendment neither protects nor confers the right of individuals to bear arms outside of a militia.

So why can't I, as a member of the United States Militia, buy a machine gun in California?

The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistable. Who are the militia? are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American...the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
- Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788.

10 USC 311: The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

And aside from that, the first clause of the Second Amendment is not a restrictive clause, but rather an explanatory cause. The Supreme Court recognized as much in the Miller case where there was no dispute as to whether Miller and his fellow defendants were an active part of an organized militia in considering their standing to assert a Second Amendment claim.

And aside from that, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights confer no rights at all, they merely recognize pre-existing natural rights, among those the right to life and liberty, and the inherent right to defend life and liberty that the Second Amendment represents.

303 posted on 07/31/2004 6:44:55 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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