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OSHKOSH POLICE CONDUCT DOOR TO DOOR GUN CONFISCATIONS
Wisconsin Gun Owners Inc. ^ | 7-17-04

Posted on 07/27/2004 9:46:21 AM PDT by JOAT

TYRANNY ALERT!

OSHKOSH POLICE CONDUCT DOOR TO DOOR GUN CONFISCATIONS

Shooting of Oshkosh police officer results in knee jerk neighborhood gun grab

Oshkosh, Wis. -- Following the shooting of an Oshkosh police officer Saturday night, area residents were forced from their homes, their lawful firearms being confiscated by police.

The Oshkosh Police Department's Special Weapons and Tactics Unit responded to the area, with a K-9 police dog in pursuit of the perpetrator who was reported to have fled on foot.

Citizens' guns were seized through searches of area homes. The police promised to return the firearms after forensic tests proved they were not involved in the crime. The injured officer's name was withheld, but media reports indicate his condition is not life-threatening.

"The message is: Hand over your guns, now!" said Corey Graff, executive director of Wisconsin Gun Owners Inc. "This is a blatant case of guilty-until-proven-innocent and an abuse of police power."

Still, residents in the area are furious about the home invasions by police and what they see as theft of their property. Although early reports are unclear, they indicate a search warrant was issued for two homes, yet additional home owners also had firearms confiscated.

"We want the perpetrator of this crime caught and brought to justice just like everyone else," said Graff. "But that doesn't mean the police should trample citizens' 4th amendment protections, steal lawful private property and enter the home without reasonable suspicion or warrant."

One homeowner in the area said his guns were taken by police, guns that hadn't left his gun safe since last hunting season. Another victim of the police searches -- an elderly women -- reported waking up to officers' searching her home in the early morning hours.

The Oshkosh Northwestern reported, "Residents were not being allowed to return to their homes by press time."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; oshkosh; wodlist
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To: .38sw
Thanks for those links. I read them all. None of them mentioned door to door gun confiscations.

Left-wing media bias.

Either that, or gross violations of the constitution are not "newsworthy".

81 posted on 07/27/2004 11:11:19 AM PDT by ActionNewsBill ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act")
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To: badbass
Outside of all the illegal activity by the police in this story, I'm sick of these stupid politically correct euphemisms. What ever happened to "suspect"?

In one article, the police spokesman stated that they couldn't be sure whether the gentleman, or somebody else, actually fired the shot. As such he's not a "suspect" in the legally binding sense of the term.

82 posted on 07/27/2004 11:11:26 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: badbass
Outside of all the illegal activity by the police in this story, I'm sick of these stupid politically correct euphemisms. What ever happened to "suspect"?

In one article, the police spokesman stated that they couldn't be sure whether the gentleman, or somebody else, actually fired the shot. As such he's not a "suspect" in the legally binding sense of the term.

83 posted on 07/27/2004 11:11:35 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: cinFLA; Sir Gawain

Why do these threads always bring out posters that wouldn't shoot a cop, regardless of how horrendous the crime in progress?


84 posted on 07/27/2004 11:11:48 AM PDT by TERMINATTOR (Don't blame me - I voted for McClintock!)
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To: Don W

The problem is that these officers will not be sufficiently disciplined. The biggest form of the punishment will be the lawsuit, but that will come out of the taxpayers' pockets, not the officers'.

I would like to see these officers (and their bosses) fired, banned from all law enforcement employment, and required to repay the city of Oshkosh the full amount of the eventual settlement by having 50% of all future earnings garnished.

Then and only then would it serve as deterrence to prevent the next jack booted thuggery.


85 posted on 07/27/2004 11:12:28 AM PDT by blanknoone (The NAACP --->NAADP National Association for the Advancement of the Democrat Party.)
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To: .38sw

According to one article, police found a shell casing in Jungwirt's front yard. Search my front yard, you will find many cases. Does that mean I shot them? No. But over the years many have perculated up, and some are in near pristine condition. The police fubared this one.

Further, it sounds like the police executed the classic 'blank search warrant'. In a blank warrant, the police use a blank piece of paper as a search warrant, then later go to a judge with what they want to find already filled in. Note that the search has already happened, and the police know what they found already. If it is taking this long to get a judge to sign it, they have a problem.

Someones going to get fired.


86 posted on 07/27/2004 11:14:37 AM PDT by ex 98C MI Dude (Proud Member of the Reagan Republicans)
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To: JOAT
Most current published data on Violent Crime from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Not sure if a weapon used = 6%
Total Non-firearm = 17% (knife, bottle, 2x4, etc)
TOTAL FIREARM = 9% (from Saturday Night Special to Atomic Cannon)
No weapon used = 68%

How are the Oshgosh B'gosh police doing with the 68%?
87 posted on 07/27/2004 11:14:44 AM PDT by leprechaun9
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To: JOAT
Citizens' guns were seized through searches of area homes. The police promised to return the firearms after forensic tests proved they were not involved in the crime.

F$%^ THAT ..... there would have been dead cops if they tried that in my neighborhood .....

It would have been WAY past time here.

88 posted on 07/27/2004 11:14:53 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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To: TERMINATTOR
Why do these threads always bring out posters that wouldn't shoot a cop, regardless of how horrendous the crime in progress?

I was wondering something similar -- why do these threads always bring out posters who are willing to believe an obviously partisan propaganda piece, without first checking the facts for themselves?

The word "sheeple" comes to mind.....

89 posted on 07/27/2004 11:15:11 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: leprechaun9
How are the Oshgosh B'gosh police doing with the 68%?

Are you really suggesting that they should lay off dealing with shooting crimes until the 68% is taken care of?

90 posted on 07/27/2004 11:17:16 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Mikey_1962
The Oshkosh Northwestern reported, "Residents were not being allowed to return to their homes by press time."

Here's the link to the entire Oshkosh Northwestern story:

Search for shooting perpetrator

Search for shooting perpetrator becomes frustrating for Oshkosh neighborhood

By Jim Collar and Jeff Bollier of The Northwestern

Local police still have no culprit in custody following a Saturday night shooting that left an officer wounded in a south-side Oshkosh neighborhood.

Oshkosh police officials on Monday remained quiet on the progress of their investigation into the unprovoked shooting of Officer Nate Gallagher, who stood outside his squad car at 17th Avenue and Minnesota Street when the round was fired. Investigators Monday combed through a yard in the 1700 block of Minnesota Street and maintained a presence in the neighborhood throughout day.

Gallagher was released from the hospital Sunday after sustaining a gunshot wound to the right arm during response to a nearby underage drinking complaint at 10:10 p.m. the previous evening. Police Sgt. Kelly Kent said Gallagher is doing well.

Kent, however, wouldn’t discuss details of the investigation or any suspects. He said detectives have made progress and continue to actively follow leads.

The ongoing search for a perpetrator continues to prove frustrating for residents of the otherwise quiet neighborhood near Smith Elementary School. Residents of the 1700 block of Minnesota Street had mixed things to say about the methods police used in searching homes Sunday morning in the aftermath of the shooting.

Terry Wesner said “a couple of shotguns and a rifle” were removed from his home by SWAT Team members after he consented to a search, though officers did not tell him they removed the firearms after they completed their search.

“That’s what makes me so mad,” Wesner said. “They had no reason (to remove the firearms) without a warrant. … I didn’t know they removed anything until my buddy, who’s staying with me, noticed they were missing. I thought you had to have a warrant to take someone’s guns.”

Oshkosh Police Capt. Jay Puestohl said officers “don’t go into houses without consent or a warrant.” He acknowledged consent to search does “not necessarily” mean officers have consent to remove property.

Puestohl also said nothing illegal was done by removing the firearms and that investigators needed to examine them. He declined to say on what grounds officers had the right to remove the firearms, though.

“We’re getting into a lot of legal details if there’s evidence that can be seized. They (the firearms) could be,” Puestohl said. “As far as I know there was nothing inappropriate or illegal done.”

Martin Gruberg, president of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said some of the stories he’s heard from the neighborhood at least raise questions of whether rights were violated by investigating police.

“Search warrants are specific, and include information on why police are there and what they’re looking for,” Gruberg said. “If you give police consent to search, does that give them the right to come in, rummage around and take things? I’m not sure.”

Gruberg said neighbors might have felt compelled to offer consent whether or not they were comfortable with a search because they didn’t want to give the appearance that they had something to hide.

Ron Kendall, a resident of the 1700 block of Minnesota Street, said residents of the house that has become the focus of the police investigation refused to consent to a search without a warrant.

He suspects it’s a reason why police are giving the home so much attention.

Detectives, who went to the home with a search warrant Sunday morning, were seen using a metal detector, sweeping through grass and cutting down shrubs and branches in the front yard Monday evening. Puestohl declined to say whether officers pursued the warrant because the residents refused a consent search.

Details of the search, probable cause for the search or any items taken from the home weren’t available on Monday. Court records show that one occupant of the home has no criminal record, while the other occupant’s record is limited to non-violent misdemeanor convictions.

Kendall said officers have shown neighbors disrespect during their investigation.

“I can understand: It’s one of their own, but they’ve been downright rude to us,” Kendall said. “You don’t treat so-called civilians this way.”

Doris Eichel was another 1700 block resident whose house was searched, but she said officers were very polite.

91 posted on 07/27/2004 11:22:42 AM PDT by ActionNewsBill ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act")
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To: cinFLA
Why do these threads always bring out posters that would shoot cops?

Because if stuff like that happens to certain people that value their freedom and their rights ... there will be people hurt.

Sometimes the only place you're gonna find justice is a holster.

And make no mistake, I DREAD the day when this inevitable confrontations arrive.

92 posted on 07/27/2004 11:22:44 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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To: r9etb
From Lunatic's thrid link:The Oshkosh Police Department?s Special Weapons and Tactics Unit conducted a house-by-house search of several blocks surrounding the site of the shooting into early Sunday morning.
Police later served a search warrant at a home on Minnesota Street. Police declined to say what evidence was found or how it related to the incident.

One search warrent for one house. Several houses searched and at least two guns, neither of them used to shoot the officer, seized.

You are OK with this? What am I saying... of course you are. Nothing the cops do is above reproach for people like you.

93 posted on 07/27/2004 11:23:58 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: JOAT

This incident has made it around to several other websites as well. As here, most seem to focus on the constitutionality (or lack of same) of the police actions. A few have noticed another thing though.

Does anybody remember the California Highway Patrolman who was shot down as he exited a courthouse a couple of months ago? Like here, in that case every available police officer hit the streets, kicking bushes and shaking trees, looking for the shooter. Why don’t those same police forces use similar tactics when an ordinary citizen is shot? Are we to believe that the lives and well-being of police officers is more important than that of the peons? If that is true, then we have devolved from a constitutional republic to something more akin to Japanese feudalism, complete with a “Samurai” class which holds our lives and property in its hands.

Someday, somewhere, someone will shoot a police officer and as a defense he will claim that he thought the officer was drawing a gun and shot in self-defense. If that defense holds up in court I will then begin to believe that we citizens are truly equal to police officers in the eyes of the law.

I don’t think I’ll hold my breath….


94 posted on 07/27/2004 11:24:40 AM PDT by oldfart ("All governments and all civilizations fall... eventually. Our government is not immune.)
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To: ActionNewsBill
Puestohl also said nothing illegal was done by removing the firearms and that investigators needed to examine them. He declined to say on what grounds officers had the right to remove the firearms, though.

The only justification there CAN be is a warrent in a search like this. If you can't get the persons permission, then you need a warrent. Period. Even our current screwed up justice system can't be THAT far gone.

95 posted on 07/27/2004 11:26:36 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Wallace T.
You have implied...

I implied no such thing. Quit your whining.

My post simply pointed out that it is easy to dismiss abuses when they occur to someone outside of a familiar social circle. But when the same (or similar) abuses hit close to home, ones hackles are easily raised.

The folks in the Fox Valley have just had their first taste of what others have long known.

And what's wrong with my HTML skills?

Would you have rather had me post a color picture?

96 posted on 07/27/2004 11:27:25 AM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: Dead Corpse
You are OK with this? What am I saying... of course you are. Nothing the cops do is above reproach for people like you.

LOL! I love you, too.

You're as busy misrepresenting what happened as the original article. A "house-by-house search" for a shooter on the loose (which is what happened), is not the same thing as "searching several houses" looking for guns (which is not what happened).

The only house that was searched for evidence was the single house at which the cops confiscated a gun, and they had a warrant for that.

97 posted on 07/27/2004 11:33:13 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Are you really suggesting that they should lay off dealing with shooting crimes until the 68% is taken care of?

When I consider that law enforcement includes:
Local Police
County Police
State Police
Transit Police
Harbor Police
Sheriff's Officers
Federal Marshalls
FBI,
I wonder why more of that capability isn't directed at the 68%. This percentage hasn't changed since I started looking at this data in 1988!

I wish there was more effort directed at the 68% by law enforcement as well as the media. But then again only guns sell newspapers and increase ratings of news broadcasts.
98 posted on 07/27/2004 11:36:23 AM PDT by leprechaun9
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To: johnfrink

In Washington State, if a reasonable person can look at your house and reasonably conclude it looks like you have marijuana plants growing there, the cops don't need a warrant.


99 posted on 07/27/2004 11:36:39 AM PDT by RobRoy (You only "know" what you experience. Everything else is mere belief.)
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To: JOAT
" Police last week seized a number of firearms during consent searches of homes in the area, but need the bullet to match against them. Police also served a search warrant at the property they believe the shot originated from."

The residents gave their consent.

100 posted on 07/27/2004 11:41:15 AM PDT by spunkets
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