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To: lentulusgracchus

Because despite your best efforts to convince people otherwise, the only ones holding onto that "homosexuality is a mental disorder" canard are as outdated and disproven, though no less fervent, as those who held onto the geocentric theory of the solar system.


35 posted on 07/27/2004 1:22:45 PM PDT by tdadams (If there were no problems, politicians would have to invent them... wait, they already do.)
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To: tdadams; lentulusgracchus
Because despite your best efforts to convince people otherwise, the only ones holding onto that "homosexuality is a mental disorder" canard are as outdated and disproven, though no less fervent, as those who held onto the geocentric theory of the solar system.

And we know this is true, lentulus, because td has told us so. We are outdated because he says so. Our beliefs are disproven because he has told us so.

Oddly enough, when Copernicus disproved the geocentric theory of the solar system, he provided mathematics to prove his position.

Don't ask for proof that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, though. Proof isn't necessary. The thousands of years of history where homosexality was recognized as a mental disorder don't require proof before changing that belief. In fact, you are required to prove that they were right for all those centuries, not the people claiming they were wrong.

Shalom.

37 posted on 07/27/2004 2:07:06 PM PDT by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: tdadams
Because despite your best efforts to convince people otherwise, the only ones holding onto that "homosexuality is a mental disorder" canard are as outdated and disproven, though no less fervent, as those who held onto the geocentric theory of the solar system.

Homosexuality is a paraphilia whether the paraphiliacs insist that it isn't, or not.

Please elaborate on "disproven". It hasn't been "disproven", only disestablished by putsch within the APA. A conciliary vote doesn't equal peer-reviewed proof or even a consensus. If there were a new consensus, then never so many of the members of one of the three APA's (I think it was the American Psychiatric Association, but since the page has been taken down, I don't know which it was) would still, in 2000, dissent from the orthodox view promulgated by the putschists, that says that homosexuality is innate and therefore not disordered -- the analogy in debate, iirc, being handedness.

The survey that was taken down did not ask the question whether the members believed that homosexuality is disordered. I would have loved to see their response to that one. But as long as the inmates are in charge, it's long odds against that question's being asked.

Or do you disagree? May we look forward soon, in your opinion, to a dispassionate new round of discussion of that question among the APA?

And was Democritus "outdated" with his atomic theory, when the Neoplatonists held sway? I suppose he was, by your analogy -- but he was still objectively more correct than anyone else who propounded on essences in classical antiquity.

Oh, and for convenience, I'm going to start numbering the APA's. In my usage I propose to distinguish among them as follows:

APA1 = American Psychiatric Association, keepers of the DSM.

APA2 = American Psychological Association, persecutors of Paul Cameron.

APA3 = American Psychotherapy Association.

If someone has a better way to distinguish them without all the extra keystrokes, I'm open.

47 posted on 07/27/2004 10:44:13 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: tdadams
Oh, and I asked you, "why do you think not?"

You didn't answer the question, but instead indulged in ad hominem against people in the psych community who disagree with you.

That isn't stating your reasons for holding a particular opinion, because ad hominem isn't a reason. It's an appeal to motive in lieu of support.

48 posted on 07/27/2004 10:48:26 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: tdadams

Those subjective words like "outmoded" and "outdated" - social Darwinism at its finest!

IOW, because something was a certain way in the past, it must be bad or wrong or stupid. Progress means whatever way we are already going, so let's speed it up so we get there faster.

As for disproven, the debate on the pulled thread did not end in your favor. Homosexuality was taken off the list of mental disorders because of politics, not because homosexuals were found to be normal.


50 posted on 07/27/2004 10:54:43 PM PDT by little jeremiah (The Islamic Jihad and the Homosexual Jihad both want to destroy us.)
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