Lazarus or dead man walking?

Times Union ^ | Saturday, July 24, 2004 | BRIAN NEARING

[Happy2BMe]

""It's sad the way the Democratic Party has drifted," Conners said. "Long before today, my father would have been dismayed at the things that have happened. ... He would understand what I've done."

_________________________________

YES! - ping!

[tkathy]

This is why the reps must become big tent, and leave behind the rigid ideological social issues. If they become big tent, they will rule the country for decades.

[tjwmason]

Asking a serious question. Have there been any major defections from the Republicans to the Democrats in recent times?

As an observer of American politics from afar (over the pond) it strikes me that whilst the media are painting the Republicans as extremist right-wingers; the actual shift is of the Democratic Party to the left.

Also, it strikes me that there has been some development of an ideological divide between the parties (this was always less pronounced in American politics than in Europe, and the Commonwealth).

[libertylover]

What's your version of a "big tent" other than the generic to say "to include more people"? What change in political stances should the Republicans make to achieve a bigger tent?

[livius]

What "rigid sociological issues" are you talking about? Opposition to abortion, I assume. Well, this guy became a Republican knowing that, and so have many others. In addition, in virtually every contest where a strong pro-life candidate runs against a pro-abortion candidate, the pro-life candidate wins.

The point is to provide leadership, not to adapt to the miserable Dem status quo. We already have one party that considers itself the great big enormous giant tent, and look at them. No leadership, no direction, and no ethics.

[HateBill]

Have there been any major defections from the Republicans to the Democrats in recent times?

Jeffords, Senator of Vermont, changed his party in 2001 from Republican to "Independent" (but really Democrat). His switch turned control of the Senate to the Democrats. The effect did not last long since the Republicans won back the Senate in 2002 elections and Jeffords lost his chairmanship and now is just another member of the oppositionist minority.

In Congress, the last party-switcher to Dems. was Long Island representative Michael Forbes, who expressed anguish at the time that his revolutionary move was eclipsed by the death that weekend of John Kennedy Jr.

The Republicans got their revenge. Forbes was opposed in the Democrat primary by a librarian. The librarian won, due in no small part to Republicans taking ads and billboards saying "Thank you Mike Forbes for supporting Newt Gingrich's agenda." The librarian then lost the general election to Felix Grucci, who only served for 2 years before he was replaced by a Democrat.

Those are the only national office-holders who switched parties recently that I can recall.

[arthurus]

If the Reps become a big enough tent then there is no more reason for preferring them.

[ovrtaxt]

So he's a Republican. Big whoop!

Is he a conservative? Or just another leftist who waters down the GOP?

[ovrtaxt]

If their big tent is full of socialists, include me out.

[George W. Bush]

Well, Senator Jeffords of Vermont defected and delivered control of the Senate to the Democrats in May of 2001. Officially, he merely became an Independennt. But his move gave leadership of all the committees and the senate majority leader position to the Dims. And he subsequently caucused with them. And they gave him leadership on certain committees so he did get a payoff from them.

Jeffords defects, Democrats control Senate

As an observer of American politics from afar (over the pond) it strikes me that whilst the media are painting the Republicans as extremist right-wingers; the actual shift is of the Democratic Party to the left.

This is very accurate. It has occurred for decades. Conservatives are generally disappointed that the GOP won't draw a line in the sand and stick with their positions.

Also, it strikes me that there has been some development of an ideological divide between the parties (this was always less pronounced in American politics than in Europe, and the Commonwealth).

There was less overt ideological divide in the past, notably before the Republicans took control of the House in '94 for the first time in almost fifty years. In more recent years, as the Dims lost their majority status throughout the South, the Dims are more radical. They use their radical agenda to appeal to non-assimilating illegal immigrants, to the sodomy faction, etc. They also are effective in advancing their agenda in state and county and city governing bodies, using these channels to challenge the system and as fodder for lawsuits. You can see examples of this in the sodomy marriage tactics they are employing and in their gun-control lobbies. And, as always, their army of trial lawyers is waiting to sue everyone in sight like tobacco companies, gun makers, 'hatemongers', etc.

There is a recognition among the Left that they can win victories even when they can't win at the national level in Congress or in the Supreme Court. They can best pursue this by amending state constitutions to grant rights not enumerated in the federal constitution. This approach was pioneered by the ACLU (radical lawyers group) decades ago. Also, they choose where to file suits based on who the judge will be that will hear the case, naturally preferring to mount their legal challenges in liberal areas, again, this is evidenced by their use of the Massachussetts supreme court to attempt to impose sodomy marriage on the entire country by judicial fiat. The various Dim factions are successfully copying the ACLU's earlier tactics now that they are excluded from leadership in the House & Senate & presidency.

While all of this happens, the GOP is sitting around either playing stupid or just being stupid. It's hard to determine which it is on any given day.

Well, hopefully I addressed your points...

[RaceBannon]

Jim Jeffords went to the dark side

[George W. Bush]

Well, Senator Jeffords of Vermont defected and delivered control of the Senate to the Democrats in May of 2001. Officially, he merely became an Independennt. But his move gave leadership of all the committees and the senate majority leader position to the Dims. And he subsequently caucused with them. And they gave him leadership on certain committees so he did get a payoff from them.

Jeffords defects, Democrats control Senate

As an observer of American politics from afar (over the pond) it strikes me that whilst the media are painting the Republicans as extremist right-wingers; the actual shift is of the Democratic Party to the left.

This is very accurate. It has occurred for decades. Conservatives are generally disappointed that the GOP won't draw a line in the sand and stick with their positions.

Also, it strikes me that there has been some development of an ideological divide between the parties (this was always less pronounced in American politics than in Europe, and the Commonwealth).

There was less overt ideological divide in the past, notably before the Republicans took control of the House in '94 for the first time in almost fifty years. In more recent years, as the Dims lost their majority status throughout the South, the Dims are more radical. They use their radical agenda to appeal to non-assimilating illegal immigrants, to the sodomy faction, etc. They also are effective in advancing their agenda in state and county and city governing bodies, using these channels to challenge the system and as fodder for lawsuits. You can see examples of this in the sodomy marriage tactics they are employing and in their gun-control lobbies. And, as always, their army of trial lawyers is waiting to sue everyone in sight like tobacco companies, gun makers, 'hatemongers', etc.

There is a recognition among the Left that they can win victories even when they can't win at the national level in Congress or in the Supreme Court. They can best pursue this by amending state constitutions to grant rights not enumerated in the federal constitution. This approach was pioneered by the ACLU (radical lawyers group) decades ago. Also, they choose where to file suits based on who the judge will be that will hear the case, naturally preferring to mount their legal challenges in liberal areas, again, this is evidenced by their use of the Massachussetts supreme court to attempt to impose sodomy marriage on the entire country by judicial fiat. The various Dim factions are successfully copying the ACLU's earlier tactics now that they are excluded from leadership in the House & Senate & presidency.

While all of this happens, the GOP is sitting around either playing stupid or just being stupid. It's hard to determine which it is on any given day.

Well, hopefully I addressed your points...

[new cruelty]

Well, for one, James Jeffords left the GOP to become an independent, which gave control of the Senate to the dems in 2001.

"Increasingly I find myself in disagreement with my party... I will leave the Republican Party and will become an Independent." - James Jeffords

[new cruelty]

Here is another one -

Catania Leaves D.C. GOP Over Convention Seat: Ouster as Delegate Tied To Opposition to Bush

Catania, in an interview, said he would have fulfilled his obligation and voted for Bush at the Republican National Convention in New York, "but I have no intention of supporting him in the general election."

Here's one defecting from the dnc to the GOP-

California congressman leaves Democrats to join GOP

"My Democratic colleagues have just lost sight of what's fair for the American people... I really believe the Republican agenda stands up for what the American values are and what most people in this country really want their government to do for them," said Martinez, who represents a solidly Democratic district in Los Angeles county.

[new cruelty]

You have peeked my interest. Here is another.

Homosexual Politician Defects From GOP

"Being a gay man and, up until this week, a Republican, [Santorum's] comments truly summed up for me the attitude of the GOP toward the millions of gay men and women who work, raise families, pay taxes and contribute to our society... We are hated, we are marginalized, and are basically unwanted by a party that has forsaken the principles of Abraham Lincoln and become dominated by a right wing that falls far short of representing mainstream America," Corbin said.

Hmmph. That other guy, Catania (also a homosexual) refused to vote for Bush.

[new cruelty]

Ok... three gay men leaving the GOP... I am sensing a trend

State Lawmaker Defects to Democrats

"One of the motivating factors in my decision to leave were the comments of U.S. Senator Rick Santorum, in which he likened homosexuality to incest, bestiality and an immoral lifestyle," said state Rep. Corbin.

[new cruelty]

oops... the last two were the same guy. Nevermind.

[HostileTerritory]

Have there been any major defections from the Republicans to the Democrats in recent times?

We saw a lot of that in Massachusetts after the Weld boom of the early 1990s fizzled. My state senator used to be a Republican, then switched to being a liberal Democrat because the 'RATs control 80% of the legislature and he didn't want to fight the tide.

[HostileTerritory]

Also, a couple of state senators in South Carolina switched over school funding issues before the '02 election. They lost as Democrats. Bwahahaha.

Teresa Heinz Kerry, does she count?

Some county official in Broward County, the last Republican elected countywide with 30+ years' experience, switched last year because he thought he would lose given the influx of Yankees. Strictly career protection.