Presbyterians Attempt to Mend Damaged Ties With Jews

Beliefnet ^ | 7-22-04 | Kevin Eckstrom

[martin_fierro]

PCUSA is out of its friggin' mind.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[Piranha]

It almost makes me want to convert to Christianity just so that I could mean it when I tell them to go to hell.

If Jesus came back in Bethlehem, his Jewish co-religionists would take care of him just fine, while the Presbyterians would let him starve rather than support Israel.

[Truthsayer20]

Well, it's nice to the see leftists (i.e., PCUSA and ADL) at each other's throats.

[dukeman]

I hope Freepers will keep in mind that Presbyterian (USA) is just one, and does not speak for all, of the several Presbyterian denominations. I am with a Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) denomination. We know how to read the Bible and we know that God will bless those who bless Israel.

[NativeNewYorker]

I know my neighborhood presbyterian church is going to have several thousand reasons to regret this.

[Piranha]

Are the various Presbyterian hospitals (Rush in Chicago, NY Presbyterian in NY) affiliated with one of the Presbyterian denominations?

If they are affiliated with PCUSA, does that mean that they will no longer hire Doctors who received training in Israel or work on clinical trials of drugs or medical devices developed by Israeli companies, or work with Beilinson or Hadassah or Shaare Zedek or other top Israeli hospitals?

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

This is going to create an interesting rift which will marginalize and perhaps destroy the Presbyterians. Too bad. A very ill-considered decision, IMHO. As ill-considered as the suicide bombings.

[Slings and Arrows]

Noted. Between the Presbyterians and Anglicans, something tells me that some schisms are coming up fast.

[PAR35]

something tells me that some schisms are coming up fast.

Most of the theologically conservative Presbyterians left years ago for the OPC, PCA, and some other, smaller groups. Even some of the moderates left and formed the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. There aren't a whole lot of congregations left which are disposed to leave, although they are losing over 40,000 members a year.

[Unam Sanctam]

Freaking apostates! PCUSA does not speak for Christianity.

[dukeman]

I don't know which Presbyterian denomination founded the various hospitals, but my guess is that it was one of the older, larger ones (could be more than one?). The PCA has been around since the 70's and, I believe, has somewhere around 1/2 million members.

[Texas_Dawg]

There aren't a whole lot of congregations left which are disposed to leave, although they are losing over 40,000 members a year.

Does the PCUSA list their membership numbers online? I was looking for this the other day and couldn't find them.

[PAR35]

Unofficial chart of losses 67-2002 (selected years)
http://www.layman.org/layman/news/2003-news-articles/pcusas-reasons-for-staggering-loss.htm

Official numbers, 1960-2001
http://www.pcusa.org/research/reports/trends.htm

Lots of other official statistics can be reached from here:
http://www.pcusa.org/research/statistics.htm

Losses have been over 40,000 for each of the last two years.

[Texas_Dawg]

Thanks.

Count me as one of the losses. PCA now.

[Elsie]

The Philadelphia congregation, Avodat Yisrael, received $260,000 from various church agencies and has been called offensive by Jews for its use of Jewish ritual music and sacred objects such as Torah scrolls and menorahs in Christian worship.

 

Too bad that the OBJECTS are 'sacred'!

 

Have these fools forgotten #1?????

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Rock pointed out, however, that a 1987 statement that discouraged targeting Jews for evangelism because they "are already in a covenantal relationship with God" remains unchanged.

 

THIS guy obviously does not know the OT; or the New, either!!!!

 

NIV Jeremiah 34:17-18
17.  "Therefore, this is what the LORD says: You have not obeyed me; you have not proclaimed freedom for your fellow countrymen. So I now proclaim `freedom' for you, declares the LORD--`freedom' to fall by the sword, plague and famine. I will make you abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth.
 18.  The men who have violated my covenant and have not fulfilled the terms of the covenant they made before me, I will treat like the calf they cut in two and then walked between its pieces.

 

NIV Jeremiah 31:31-32

 31.  "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
 32.  It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to  them, "  declares the LORD.

 

NIV Luke 22:13-20
 13.  They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
 14.  When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table.
 15.  And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
 16.  For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."
 17.  After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you.
 18.  For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."
 19.  And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
 20.  In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

[SJackson]

I don't understand your point.