Scouting jetliners for new attacks

The Washington Times ^ | 07/22/04 | Audrey Hudson

[conservative in nyc]

Terrorists testing jets, crews say


By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Flight crews and air marshals say Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for a terrorist attack.
    At least two midflight incidents have involved numerous men of Middle Eastern descent behaving in what one pilot called "stereotypical" behavior of an organized attempt to attack a plane.

---Snip---

A June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.

---Snip---

 "I've never been in a situation where I have felt that afraid," said Annie Jacobsen, a business and finance feature writer for the online magazine Women's Wall Street who was aboard the Northwest flight.

[Reb Raider]

Well said. To understand this story fully you need to read parts one and two of Ms. Jacobsen's articles which are quite long. The behavior of these men was meant to frighten. If I remember correctly, one of the men got a long tubular object wrapped in cloth out of the overhead bin and took that to the bathroom in addition to the camera and McDonald's sack already discussed. Why did the guy in the last group during landing come out, look at another 'band member' and run his hand across his throat and mouth "No".

I am positive they will hit us again. They have been lulling a large portion of Americans into thinking we are relatively safe,when the truth is they are just patiently planning their next attack. No one group can totally protect us--we are all going to have to be alert and take the threat and their hatred seriously. The pilots, flight attendants, other passengers and Ms.Jacobsen's husband were all hysterical too I guess since they were also very concerned. Her husband was writing down what he thought were his last words. I do understand the FAM not showing themselves because I think the terrorists are trying to figure out how many are on certain flights and where they sit.

Scariest thing I've read is that flight attendants have had no training of what to do when a situation like this presents itself and there are no protocols in place. I thought they came up with procedures after 9/11 but I was wrong.

[azhenfud]

"She was not told the name of the band, nor the name of the casino."

Of course she wasn't told. Their privacy is as important to them as would be them knowing her name and address. Airlines will not ever give that info out to individuals and are reluctant to give it to LEO's without warrants.

[technochick99]

Yes, let's beat up and possibly kill people based on appearances... or how they make someone else feel

I think that the poster meant that people should have said something to them.

[TheLion]

"No doubt. If I were President after 9-11 all mideasterners would be sent back to their country of origin and all the mosques in this country would be torn down."

At the very least, we shouldn't allow any more to come in on visas(many are probably false anyway)and all non-citizens from the middle east should take a hike back home for awhile.

[sweneop]

no, that terrorists are much better than the example shown. terrorists arent going to be that obvious.

[sweneop]

dont misquote me, i only referred to this flight. i wont argue that terrorists are doing these runs, im saying that this example isnt one of them. too clumsy,open and useless. they will be much better than that...

[sweneop]

i have blonde hair and blue eyes and my name is andy. my point is that terrorists are going to be a lot better at this than these guys were.

[sweneop]

i dont know what this response form eveyone. i think you are all underestimating the terrorists. they will be much better than this.

[danamco]

and after the investigation, you might start to figure out 'hey, maybe they WERE really musicians?'


I heard today, either Glen Beck or Rush asking, who in the world would go and listen to a group of Syrian musicians in the U.S???

[danamco]

Why are we letting groups of middle eastern men....probably non-citizens....fly on our planes. Are we stupid or what?

I remember right after 9/11, China wouldn't permit people from 20 countries to fly on their planes. I thought this rather wise at the time.



Because of the stupidity that you are not allowed to do profiling of Middle East men (or women?)

[sweneop]

im going out on a limb here, but syrians?

most people leave those countries for a reason. they want more freedom and peace. they still love the music and culture and stuff, though. i know lots of iranians and even a whitey mcwhiteboy such as myself can find himself absentmindedly humming iranian pop-tunes.

che khoshgel, che khoshgel, che khoshgel shodi emshab!

[chuckwalla]

Agreed that something is fishy about the story.
I believe it happened as reported but it was not a dry run.
Any smart terrorist would not be so obvious and draw attention to their plans.
I believe it to be a decoy. Get us to look in that direction then hit us where we aren't looking.
My guess is trains.
Taking out several major rail lines would tie up commerce for days and cost plenty. Disrupt food supplies and many other needed goods delivered across country.

[chuckwalla]

I agree that it is a diversion.
As told they were acting way too obvious.
A dry run should not alert anyone to plans that could then be countered.

[tiki]

I don't know how to build a plasics explosive but could there be a way that many could get security with parts and then each person would add their part and make a bomb? I really don't know but I'm not hysterical but I do profile. I would be suspicious of any Middle easterner.

[Jim Noble]

No doubt. If I were President after 9-11 all mideasterners would be sent back to their country of origin and all the mosques in this country would be torn down.

I wouldn't tear down the mosques.

I would have done the following (and I would still do it today):

1) Cancel all visas for citizens of Pakistan, Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran,Yemen, and subjects of Saudi Arabia.

2) Have all holders of cancelled visas report to detention and processing centers for screening.

3) Upon proof that a foreign national's presence here is in the vital national interest of the United States, re-issue a new visa.

4) Upon proof that a foreign national is not a threat to the United States, remove them to their country of origin at no charge to the alien.

5) Detain the rest.

6) Vigorously search for (house-to-house in Brooklyn, Detroit, Newark-you know where you are) aliens from the banned countries who are here without visas and who are not citizens. Indefinitely detain (intern) all located by this process.

7) Prohibit debarkation at US ports of citizens or subjects of the above-referenced countries without a special visa, issued by the Department of Homeland Security at their point of embarkation, certifying that their entry is in the vital national interest of the United States.

[dinasour]

yet it has the funds to ferry 14 people in from overseas and back again for a one night performance

You beat me to this.

I wonder who owns this place, Sami Al-Arian?

[heleny]

My sense of the posted piece on the "probing" which has been occurring is it is real. However, it also (likely) could be a diversion, using arab/muslim characters as the bait, with non-arab/muslim co-conspirators on the same flight as the real threat. The muslims will flush out the air marshal(s), who would then be taken down by the non-muslims, with a total crew of, say, 8-10 hijackers.

Or, they could just use teams of 8-10 (even if they're all Arab, although a few non-Arab Muslim co-conspirators would definitely be less obvious to everyone else). It would be like their old teams of five, plus a few extra as backup or to occupy/divert the air marshalls. 5-7 terrorists blocking the two aisles leaves three free to attack the pilots.

One reason the terrorists may still prefer Arabs, such as in this case with 14 Syrians, is that the highjackers can speak a common language that is foreign to everyone else on the plane. Maybe they'll experiment with hair dye and makeup to disguise their features?

[heleny]

the casino is too small to have a house band--yet it has the funds to ferry 14 people in from overseas and back again for a one night performance?

The Sycuan casino, like many others in CA, is one of the Native American Indian casino and resort businesses in the San Diego area. I've never been out there, so I don't know about its size, but they have lots of money because it's a lucrative business (no competition from Americans, no Las Vegas odds/fairness rules, different or no taxes, etc.).

If you ever read the CA gubernatorial recall threads last fall, people had discussed the Indian Gambling money donated to Bustamante and unethically used to promote him. I'm sure those tribes with casinos definitely have lots of money to spend if they want to. Although they wouldn't be Muslim, the executives who decide the programming probably bought into PC multiculturalism.

[heleny]

AQ has a penchant for continuing to try to hit their target, even if they have missed once. 911 was their second fun at the World Trade Center.
So, what have they attempted to hit to date in the USA that they haven't succeeded with? That is at least one place to anticipate they will attack.

Didn't the "Millenium Bomber" -- that an alert Border Patrol or Immigration/Customs officer caught entering from Canada with explosives -- want to blow up the Space Needle or something? (I don't know how we would know his target for sure. He could've lied.)

Also, perhaps some terrorist teams were prevented from flying to their targets on 9/11/01 if their flights were grounded.

[heleny]

pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.

Why did the air marshal have to reveal himself? The flight attendant could have unlocked and opened the lavatory door easily, although unlocking the door (and thereby dimming the lavatory lights) would remove the element of surprise if they had wanted to catch in the act whatever the ME man was doing.

The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.

Scary!