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Terror in the Skies, Again?
Women's Wall Street ^ | Annie Jacobsen

Posted on 07/15/2004 1:12:48 PM PDT by big gray tabby

On June 29, 2004, at 12:28 p.m., I flew on Northwest Airlines flight #327 from Detroit to Los Angeles with my husband and our young son. Also on our flight were 14 Middle Eastern men between the ages of approximately 20 and 50 years old. What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.

On that Tuesday, our journey began uneventfully. Starting out that morning in Providence, Rhode Island, we went through security screening, flew to Detroit, and passed the time waiting for our connecting flight to Los Angeles by shopping at the airport stores and eating lunch at an airport diner. With no second security check required in Detroit we headed to our gate and waited for the pre-boarding announcement. Standing near us, also waiting to pre-board, was a group of six Middle Eastern men. They were carrying blue passports with Arabic writing. Two men wore tracksuits with Arabic writing across the back. Two carried musical instrument cases - thin, flat, 18 long. One wore a yellow T-shirt and held a McDonald's bag. And the sixth man had a bad leg -- he wore an orthopedic shoe and limped. When the pre-boarding announcement was made, we handed our tickets to the Northwest Airlines agent, and walked down the jetway with the group of men directly behind us.

(Excerpt) Read more at womenswallstreet.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; anniejacobsen; flight327; nwa; terrorism
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To: .38sw
Well, identical thread #4 is here.
81 posted on 07/16/2004 6:29:55 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: wtc911

Dont pay any attention to this this idiot. Its obviously a 14 year old with acne and calloused hands playing on his parents computer....


82 posted on 07/16/2004 6:30:03 AM PDT by FeliciaCat
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To: big gray tabby
Hi everyone...my first post here on FR. Have been a lurker for many days and have much respect for many of you. One thing that is curious, and I may be wrong.....but I thought they had made it mandatory that when a plane was in descent and "fasten seat belt" signs were turned on, absolutely no one was to get up after that. Why were these guys allowed to congregate around the bathrooms after that on this particular flight? By the way...am from Pa originally and I love the south. Am in Birmingham, Al now working for a cardiology group. Thanks for the opportunity to post here.
83 posted on 07/16/2004 6:30:57 AM PDT by alabama_heart
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To: alabama_heart

The Northwest crew was violating TSA instructions by not telling the 14 Syrians to sit down and not to congregate by the restrooms and emergency exits:


http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/business/7655005.htm?1c

Posted on Wed, Jan. 07, 2004

TSA Discourages Lavatory Lines on Planes

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Airlines have been asked to tell passengers they shouldn't congregate near aircraft lavatories because of security concerns, the Transportation Security Administration said Wednesday.

The agency in mid-December sent an advisory to airlines asking them to inform passengers that they should not gather in groups on airplanes, especially near the restroom, said spokesman Darrin Kayser.

"It formalizes the idea that we don't want people congregating in the airplane," Kayser said.


84 posted on 07/16/2004 6:40:28 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

Thanks Jimbo, I appreciate you confirming that.


85 posted on 07/16/2004 6:43:15 AM PDT by alabama_heart
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To: FeliciaCat

I'll say what I want thanks. Go back to DU yourself - whatever that is.


86 posted on 07/16/2004 7:00:59 AM PDT by jjbrouwer
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To: alabama_heart

Welcome!

It is my understanding that airlines are subject to a $10,000 fine for each person out of their seats during this final stage of arrival. As this would be difficult to police (the flight attendents aren't going to report their own airlines), the regulation appears moot.

I printed this article out for my husband to read. He asked a interesting question. Why would the flight attendant have asked the author to write a description of the gent in the yellow shirt? She could have easily stepped into a private area (galley maybe) and written it herself. After all, she'd probably walked by and interacted with him several times herself.

Regards from Dothan, Alabama.


87 posted on 07/16/2004 7:02:15 AM PDT by Quilla
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To: alabama_heart

http://www.airportnet.org/depts/federal/press/articles/wsj52704.htm

Why It's Harder on Some Flights
To Get Up and Stretch Your Legs
May 26, 2004; Page D9

-snip-

The Transportation Security Administration told airlines in December to police gatherings of passengers on planes for possible security risks, especially near cockpit doors. Since then, different airlines have interpreted that recommendation differently. And frequent travelers say airline crews often unilaterally go further these days, even outright barring passengers from standing in the aisles and the galleys in the back of the plane.

That's what happened to Andy Thorson on a recent five-hour trip from Orlando, Fla., to Los Angeles on United Airlines. Four hours into the trip, he wanted to stretch. So he slipped into a rear galley of the Boeing 757, only to be shooed away by a magazine-reading flight attendant who said he wasn't allowed to congregate in a galley area for "security reasons."

-snip-

Five-hour flights without providing an opportunity to stretch?

United, a unit of UAL Corp., says that isn't its policy, and that its flight attendant was probably confused by another TSA security directive. The TSA has instructed airlines to ban passengers from congregating in any galley on international flights bound for the U.S., but not on domestic flights, says United spokeswoman Chris Nardella. "We want our customers to stretch their legs," she adds.

Officially, the TSA says it has directed airlines only to tell crews they can break up lines or gatherings if there might be a security danger. The directive went to airlines before the busy holiday travel season, about the same time the government raised the nation's threat status (to a "level orange").

"This measure empowered flight crews to take steps if they become uncomfortable with the situation on an airplane," says TSA spokesman Darrin Kayser.

Flight crews do have wide authority in the air. Federal law says passengers must comply with instructions of flight crews -- even if they don't agree with them. An airplane isn't a democracy, and there's good reason for that.


Still, airlines vary in their policies on wandering passengers. They all want you seated when the seat-belt sign is on, or when flight attendants are serving beverages. But after that, policies seem to range from lenient to leg-irons.

Delta Air Lines, for example, says it has no policy. "You're free to move about the cabin, as long as it doesn't interfere with the crew," says Delta spokeswoman Catherine Stengel. "We allow our customers to stretch."

AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, on the other hand, says its flight attendants sometimes ask passengers queuing up for bathrooms in the rear of the plane to sit down and wait; in short, it's up to the discretion of the flight attendants.

Continental says it asks passengers not to congregate near any lavatory, particularly the front. But flight attendants let passengers line up for the rear bathroom, even when lines get long -- as they often do when movies end or prior to the 30-minute stay-seated rule when flying into Washington's Reagan National Airport. Galleys are OK for stretching, a spokesman says, unless flight attendants have pulled closed the curtain the airline provides.

Northwest Airlines says its flight attendants monitor activity around the cockpit door and discourage congregating there, as the TSA security guidance suggested.

-snip-


88 posted on 07/16/2004 7:04:28 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: big gray tabby; jjbrouwer

Yesterday, I sent the link to this article to Andrew Sullivan.

Today, he leads with it.

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/

< / bragging >


89 posted on 07/16/2004 7:15:25 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus

Who is Andrew Sullivan?


90 posted on 07/16/2004 7:21:22 AM PDT by jjbrouwer
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To: Quilla
Thanks for the welcome..and info, neighbor. Also thanks to you Jimbo. I haven't flown since prior 9/11 so I didn't know how forcefully they policed that rule. I mean, what if you really had to go bad...do you raise your hand and ask permission? At any rate, I am glad to officially be a Freeper now.

Regards,
AH
91 posted on 07/16/2004 7:21:43 AM PDT by alabama_heart
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To: jjbrouwer
Confirmed by Michell Malkin.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000207.htm

Also up on instapundit.

Who is Andrew Sullivan?

I've always liked your dry British wit, jj.

92 posted on 07/16/2004 7:25:33 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
I've always liked your dry British wit, jj.

You forgot the < / sarcasm > ...

93 posted on 07/16/2004 7:37:45 AM PDT by jjbrouwer
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To: big gray tabby

bump.


94 posted on 07/16/2004 7:47:07 AM PDT by Hammerhead
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To: big gray tabby

Chilling story.............PC gone mad and way past time to get rid of Mineta.


95 posted on 07/16/2004 7:52:27 AM PDT by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: jjbrouwer

Sir, I will be the first to say that there is nothing unusual about using the bathroom....but when individuals ACT as a group, that is weird.

If you would have read the article, the plane was packed with air marshals and met with agents, with the crew concerned about the activity as well. The Arabs were detained.

They were not just using the bathroom.


96 posted on 07/16/2004 10:20:17 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** http://www.bugmenot.com ****)
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To: big gray tabby

What I can not figure out is why the passengers on the plane and the flight crew did nothing about this. At the first sign of this activity, I would have confronted these guys, told them to sit down and stay in their seats for the rest of the flight.

I would have inserted myself into their little bathroom line and barged in ahead of them to see what they were doing.

Were the regular passengers on this flight nuts? Just sitting there witnessing something like this taking place? Talk about watching someone prepare to kill you.

And I agree with you. A must read.


97 posted on 07/16/2004 10:26:37 AM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Don't buy from junk email ads!)
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To: big gray tabby

the good news is that new regulations came about due to this


98 posted on 07/16/2004 10:30:15 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** http://www.bugmenot.com ****)
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To: new cruelty
I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure this was posted in another thread.

So what. We found this one here. What is the point of posting that another thread has this story also?

99 posted on 07/16/2004 10:32:04 AM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Don't buy from junk email ads!)
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To: jjbrouwer

of using the bathroom together, of standing up when they were not supposed to....again TOGETHER AS A GROUP....of TAKING ITEMS INTO THE BATHROOM THAT APPEAR LIGHER WHEN LEAVING AND THEN GIVING THE THUMBS UP SIGN TO ANOTHER PERSON WHO DOES THE SAME THING?

Let me ask you: Do you have any brain cells at all?


100 posted on 07/16/2004 10:34:15 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** http://www.bugmenot.com ****)
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