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Labor laws and personal beliefs collide
The Seattle Times ^ | 7/8/04 | Lisa Heyamoto

Posted on 07/08/2004 8:32:22 AM PDT by ppaul

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To: Old Professer
Liability insurance has as much to with safety as an umbrella on a windy day has to do with staying dry.

True. Liability insurance serves to make sure that third-parties injuries are paid for by the party responsible for causing them, rather than the injured party or society as a whole.

From a law and economic point of view, liability insurance is the most efficient way to handle injuries to third parties.

161 posted on 07/08/2004 11:01:16 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
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To: Squantos
But becaue his business wasn't confined to his "own" property the are having a cat it seems ?

You would put your 11 year old on top of a roof to dodge traffic lights and electrical wires?

162 posted on 07/08/2004 11:01:34 AM PDT by cinFLA
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To: dalereed
Not at all, family members can exempt themselves and a corporation with 5 or less stockholders, the owners can exempt themselfs legally.

OK. Doty's been nailed for fraudulently misreporting hours worked on his workman's comp, and he's trying to make it sound like the authorities are pickin' on him because of how he raises his kids--which, BTW, wins no kudos from me, because he's acting like a damn fool. There are some jobs that children should not be doing--such as operating heavy equipment.

Parents can and should be held to account for risking their kids' lives and limbs in a fashion that no reasonbly prudent man would do. (My father was on a US Navy Board of Inquiry that infamously defined "a reasonably prudent man" as "a man who checks for toilet paper before sitting down.") I don't think it should be spelled out in painstaking detail; I'd just leave it to the common sense of a jury to decide.

163 posted on 07/08/2004 11:02:42 AM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: xm177e2
You're wrong. Juries can't find anyone "innocent," only "not guilty."

And in our country, i.e. Innocent until proven guilty, that means you are innocent, i.e. finding one 'not guilty' in the USA is continuing their 'assumed' innocence. No splitting of hairs, just the results are the same. But you make a good point as we all remember OJ!! ;-)

164 posted on 07/08/2004 11:03:40 AM PDT by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: ClintonBeGone

I live across from a homeschooling family of 8. The 8-year-old boy is on the roof helping Dad, the little ones down below. Older kids on roof, too. Nothing bad has ever happened to them, but they do seem to take huge risks.


165 posted on 07/08/2004 11:04:11 AM PDT by Sockdologer
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To: BibChr

appreciate the heads up and you were wise!! ;-)


166 posted on 07/08/2004 11:04:40 AM PDT by AgThorn (Go go Bush!! But don't turn your back on America with "immigrant amnesty")
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To: BibChr
Yeah, I was really pleasantly surprised to see such an evenhanded story. I'm used to seeing the media take stories about conservatives and especially, Christians, where the subject is dead-on in the right, and making him look like the Devil.

I don' know how long this lady is going to last, practicing such honest journalism. I just hope she has compromising pictures, showing her editor to be a closet heterosexual.

167 posted on 07/08/2004 11:06:47 AM PDT by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: AgThorn
I kind of agree that this is hardly much different than the farm work that kids do, driving tractors, pulling hay wagons, etc.

It's clearly in the article that the kids were flagging traffic at construction sites. And that is RADICALLY different than working on a farm. That's putting the lives of regular motorists into the hands of 13 year old children. And that's not right.
168 posted on 07/08/2004 11:07:04 AM PDT by Bulwark
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To: ClintonBeGone

lol it's amazing to see otherwise "conservative" thinking people take the side of guvmint when it doesn't fit into their little description of what should and should not be allowed.

The best description of Rights as I see it, is if I cannot legally tell you not to do something, then neither can the state.

I can legally keep you from murdering someone. When it comes to teaching your child work ethics or morals or your beliefs, that is none of my business.

Neither is it the business of the Bolshevik statists.


169 posted on 07/08/2004 11:08:06 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Good night Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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To: Modernman

" Allowing kids to work on construction sites clearly falls under this definition."

Go stick it!

No one could have stopped me from working construction when I was 14. It was illegal, I knew it and did it anyway, it was my choice.

I'm 66 and still working construction and hopefully will be able to continue to do it until i'm at least 80, haven't killed myself yet.


170 posted on 07/08/2004 11:11:01 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Modernman
Age of consent laws aren't perfect. Without them 14 year-olds could drink, smoke, drive, strip and perform in pornography. Not a positive result, IMO

Fair enough.

171 posted on 07/08/2004 11:13:16 AM PDT by j_tull ("I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.")
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To: Leatherneck_MT
The best description of Rights as I see it, is if I cannot legally tell you not to do something, then neither can the state.
I can legally keep you from murdering someone.

Yes, and I can legally keep you from having your small children operate heavy machinery on or around my property, because it imposes an unreasonable risk of damage or injury to me.

172 posted on 07/08/2004 11:14:05 AM PDT by steve-b (Panties & Leashes Would Look Good On Spammers)
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To: Leatherneck_MT
The best description of Rights as I see it, is if I cannot legally tell you not to do something, then neither can the state.

I'm not sure that works. The state can stop me from comitting harm to other people, whereas you might not be able to. For example, the state can arrest me for stealing a candy bar from a store, but you probably could not (unless you were a store owner).

I can legally keep you from murdering someone. When it comes to teaching your child work ethics or morals or your beliefs, that is none of my business.

Nobody is trying to stop him from teaching his kids ethics or morals. He's committed insurance fraud and put his kids in dangerous situations.

173 posted on 07/08/2004 11:14:46 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
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To: Leatherneck_MT
I can legally keep you from murdering someone. When it comes to teaching your child work ethics or morals or your beliefs, that is none of my business.

OK. In that case, I will sign on to your idea--if you, in turn, accept that the parents get the death penalty if their child (or anyone else) is killed incidental to the child doing work that reasonably prudent individuals would judge too dangerous for someone of that age to perform.

Sticking a 13-year-old on a backhoe is, IMNHO, just inviting the Grim Reaper to show up.

174 posted on 07/08/2004 11:14:48 AM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: Modernman
Nobody is trying to stop him from teaching his kids ethics or morals. He's committed insurance fraud and put his kids in dangerous situations.

Insurance fraud and child endangerment are what made America great, dagnabit! (end loopy libertarian argument)

175 posted on 07/08/2004 11:16:10 AM PDT by Poohbah ("Mister Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!" -- President Ronald Reagan, Berlin, 1987)
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To: dalereed
No one could have stopped me from working construction when I was 14. It was illegal, I knew it and did it anyway, it was my choice.

We don't let kids consent to certain activities, no matter how ready they are. Would it be okay if the family business was a strip club and dad wanted his teenage daughters to acquire a work ethic by giving lap dances?

176 posted on 07/08/2004 11:16:32 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
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To: Poohbah
Insurance fraud and child endangerment are what made America great, dagnabit! (end loopy libertarian argument)

To quote P.J. O'Rourke: "Liberals are afraid of gun-toting religious fanatics in the US. Hell, the US was FOUNDED by gun-toting religious fanatics."

177 posted on 07/08/2004 11:18:49 AM PDT by Modernman ("I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" -Groucho Marx)
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To: Poohbah

You're full of it!

A good friend of mine was operating a cat and crane at 12 and could do the job just as well if not better than the union hacks that his dad was employing. He could dig a hole and sink a gas station fuel tank faster and with more precision than any of the rest of them with a crane and clamshell.


178 posted on 07/08/2004 11:19:24 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Modernman

" We don't let kids consent to certain activities, no matter how ready they are."

You better define who "we" is!


179 posted on 07/08/2004 11:22:10 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: steve-b

Yes, and I can legally keep you from having your small children operate heavy machinery on or around my property, because it imposes an unreasonable risk of damage or injury to me


But you try to tell me the same thing on my property or at my business and I'll tell you to go shove it.

My point is made. My rights end where yours begin.


180 posted on 07/08/2004 11:22:48 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Good night Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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