Democrats have second thoughts about Kerry over his strong Israel stance

Various ^ | July 2, 2004 | nwrep

[nwrep]

A "policy paper" put out by the Kerry campaign in which he reiterates his strong and unyielding support for Israel is causing many on the left to question their committment to John Kerry.

In the policy paper, which has not been released publicly, Kerry outlines clear, strongly worded positions on several issues important to the American Jewish community. He calls for more forceful action to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons, fully backs Israel's construction of a 425-mile-long barrier between Israel and the Palestinian territories that the paper refers to as ''a security fence," and pledges to work to push for a new Palestinian political class to replace Yasser Arafat, who is called a ''failed leader."

Earlier in the campaign, Kerry got off to a shaky start with some Jewish groups. Last October he called the barrier -- composed mostly of electronic fencing with razor wire and a ditch along a tracking road, but with some stretches made of concrete -- a ''barrier to peace." The new paper says building it is ''a legitimate right of self-defense" and ''not a matter" to be taken up by the International Court of Justice, which has criticized the move.

The Massachusetts senator earlier remarked that he might appoint James A. Baker III, secretary of state in the first Bush administration, a special peace negotiator.

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Reaction to this statement on Israel was swift. Many Kerry supporters on the left, who hold decidedly pro-Palestinian views, were appalled by the sweeping nature of Kerry's pro-Israel stance.

A sampling of the views of Kerry supporters on prominent Democratic websites show a fissure developing over this issue, leading many to question the wisdom of voting for Kerry, only because he is not Bush:

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The whole world watches in dismay

Bush Lite, anyone?

 I can't believe the number of times I've read something like that here

I'm not a Kerry basher, but I am appalled that anybody could seriously advocate ignoring a candidate's policies and position papers and instead cross their fingers and hope that he/she will have a different position once in office.

I sincerely hope that folks are not using this "logic" when they're out canvassing for Kerry. "Yeah, I know the GOP is telling you the guy's a flip-flopper, but it isn't true. Also, don't worry if you don't agree with any part of his platform, he'll do something totally different when he's in office."

It is our job as voters to research a candidate's positions and policies, even if we already support them. And if we disagree with that candidate, it is our job to decide how much we disagree - - if it's enough to change our vote or cause us to sit out the election. If we refuse to do so, we dishonor everyone who has ever fought for and died for the right to vote.

Sit out the vote??? That is a sure way for 4 more years of Bush.

I will sit out and I can't really support Kerry.


I have the feeling that members in Du are getting delusional by ignoring the real power behind the puppets candidates.All the scourges that befell this country are mostly due to the allegiance of the puppets to the real master... it is time to take back the country.

The only difference between bush and Kerry is that the latter is just a lite, a hunter ,he said .Can you see that this guy has no vision ? How could you wait until he is in office under the control of ADL and CO to figure out his real policy? ANd if you are trying to console yourself that this is not his real policy than hou could we trust another flip flap ? I am so mad!


I feel nothing but contempt... for this guy. Here he has a chance to lead the world into a safe harbor of peace and what does he do? He adopts the insane policies of Bush and panders to the Israelis. If he gets elected, we will still be fighting an uphill battle to regain our country. I'll be holding my nose on voting day.
Meet the new boss....


Endorses the annexation fence?!?!? You f*ing, f*ing idiot.


Why would Kerry, as a left-wing Democrat President, support a right-wing government and its rightist policies?


Perhaps Kerry isn't at 'left-wing' as some think that he is

I'm starting to regret my $50 donation to Kerry

First the driver's license issue, now stronger support of Israel. He already doesn't support gay marriage. F*k.

I guess I'll still vote for him, but he better start catering a bit more to my needs.

"but he better start catering a bit more to my needs" Or what? YOu won't vote for him? Thanks to the intense hatred of Bush, Kerry can do just about anything he wants and much of the left will vote for him. The battle is for swing voters. Liberal Republicans, conservative Democrats, etc. Most of the people at DU and most of the rest of the base has already pledged their support and votes, come hell or high water. Kerry and his campaign staff know this. That's why he's moving to the center (as candidates in both parties generally do after the primaries).


It's hard to come up with an argument beyond "He's not bush" when most of his stated policies are Republican-friendly.


That's the thing
Bush is so loathed that Kerry doesn't need anything beyond "he's not Bush" to secure the votes and, based on recent news, the money and support of his base. He's got your vote, he doesn't need your money (he's locked into $75 million after the convention anyway and has more than he can spend before it) and plenty of people will be working hard for him just because he's not Bush. The "true left" shouldn't hold its breath waiting for a bone from Kerry.

This has been going on for quite some time

For anyone watching the primaries, Kerry's position has always been in accordance with Lieberman's. Those who watched the debates know that Kerry obsessively attacked Howard Dean for even suggesting a more "even-handed"course regarding the I\P conflict.

How exactly am I to vote for this man if my left hand is holding my nose, and my right hand is holding a barf bag?
James Baker? ... you are quickly losing my vote, Senator Kerry.

Time for me to donate to Kerry's campaign...

this message

Rachel Corrie
American Citizen
Murdered by Israel
Paid for by US Tax Payers
Stop funding Israel's Apartheid Policies!!!

Do you really think Kerry cares? If he even utters the words "Rachel Corrie" between now and November you can start looking for the other horsemen of the apocalypse and a Cubs-Red Sox World Series. It ain't gonna happen.


Floor fight. I hope there is one.


Not a chance Which delegates would fight it? And in who's name? Like I said, Kerry can do anything he wants now. Hell, he could adopt Bush's platform verbatim and he'd not only het the nomination but the vast majority of the votes of the base (and much of the center that doesn't like Bush). He could go to the right of Bush on foreign policy and Israel and only gain voted for doing so. Face it, the dedicated left is locked into ABB and ABB=Kerry. He's not campaigning for your vote anymore. He figures that he's got it. Now he's campaigning for votes that would normally go to Bush.

Quit catering to the Zionists for Christ's sake.

Boy, Ralph may get my vote yet. That sounds just like Bushit.

Thanks, Kerry, you asshole.
And thanks, DNC/DLC, for sticking us with this kindler, gentler imperialist.
No, I won't vote b*sh. Neither will I shut up about the wrongness of Kerry's positions on foreign policy. Don't like it? Feel free to bite me.

Of course you won't vote for Bush

You're voting for Kerry, right? Or have you decided to not vote for him and my thesis (and Kerry's apparent belief) that Kerry doesn't need to sell himself to the left is all wrong?

 It looks like a safe bet for Kerry.

He knows that we are so anti-Bush he can get away with almost anything. I'm beginning to think Nader has a point. Nader could be the big beneficiary of the latest Kerry position.

I beginning to dread the presidential debates

What the hell does Kerry have to debate about?

He voted for *'s war.

He wants to "stay" the course in Iraq and even send more troops.

He is trying to get to the right of Bush on Israel, but there isn't two inches of manuevering room over there.

He likes most of Bush's tax cuts.

He is an ardent free trader,

What's Kerry's strongest debate point -- my wife's richer than your wife?

George Bush, idiot savant of Crawford Texas, wasn't given much chance of beating Al Gore in the 2000 debates -- but Bush wiped the mat with him.

Standing here today, I wouldn't bet two cents that Kerry will beat Bush in a debate -- Kerry has given away 80% of what matters allready.

My only question is this -- does Kerry pander on the issue of the Arab / Israeli dispute, or is he really to the right of Bush on this issue???? Either way, this is a dark day for the Democratic party.

[nwrep]

PING

[Mr. Mojo]

.....to replace Yasser Arafat, who is called a ''failed leader."

Those are fighting words to a Rat, who don't take kindly to that sort of talk about one of their heroes.

[jocko12]

Here comes the PIG,here comes the PIG.

[onyx]

This is an excellent compilation.
Entertaining and informative.
A real peek inside the (minds?)
of some rather outspoken democrats.

YOU "DONE" GOOD!

[Peach]

The Rats don't need to worry...he'll change his mind next week.

[lainde]

Schadenfreude bump!

[Paleo Conservative]

The Massachusetts senator earlier remarked that he might appoint James A. Baker III, secretary of state in the first Bush administration, a special peace negotiator.

I never got the impression while Baker was secretary of state that he was pro-Israel.

[BenLurkin]

I'm surprised anyone believes him.

[Libloather]

...unyielding support for Israel...

Other than the out-of-control Islamic terrorists and the French, who could be against him?

[PhilDragoo]

[no dems]

"Last October he called the barrier -- composed mostly of electronic fencing with razor wire and a ditch along a tracking road, but with some stretches made of concrete -- a ''barrier to peace."

So, what happened? Did he see the polls showing the Prez cutting into the normally Dim Jewish vote?

The ultra left will not abandon him and go to Nader. They want to see Bush defeated too badly.

[Common Tator]

WE do know that Kerry has no real views. He will do or say anthing he thinks will make him popular.

Here is what I think is the Kerry logic.

Since Kerry is not George W. Bush, Kerry knows he can not lose the anyone but Bush vote... NO matter what he does.

Kerry can lose the Jewish vote in New York. He may need the Jewish vote in New York. So if Kerry cannot lose the anybody but Bush Vote, he can go after the Jewish vote. Bush has made inroads into the Jewish community. Kerry can't afford to lose the votes of the Jews.

Thus a strong pro Israel position has all up side for Kerry and no down side. The pro Muslim Democrats are not going to vote for Bush or Nader. Since their main object is to defeat Bush, they are going to vote for Kerry. Kerry needs the Jewish vote. This is a no lose position for Kerry.

[goldstategop]

Israel is the most pro-American country in the world. So hatred of Israel is really an euphemism for hating America. Its just like the Lefties not coming out and saying it openly cause THAT would be political suicide. And so they dump on Kerry for not *hating* America's staunchest friend enough. Now, if he loved Al Qaeda - he would have been greeted with two thumbs up from the Left here. They've really been pushed over the edge in the last couple of years into the fever swamps.

[Redcoat LI]

The man who believes in nothing is still going to get the votes of those who don't believe in him.

Those 1/2 wits have to vote for him,and they can't stand him.

Do they really think anyone who is not blinded by hatred will vote for this clown?

[onyx]

Are the Orthodox generally conservative?
And are the Reform more likely to be liberal?

[Milligan]

If you vote for Kerry, your getting another Bush. People have to realize Kerry will send 40,000 additional troops to Iraq. If elected he might start the draft because that's what the Democrats are trying to introduce. The real left should vote for Nader. He will provide universal health care, share the wealth and legalize pot!

[JimSEA]

Many Kerry supporters on the left, who hold decidedly pro-Palestinian views, were appalled by the sweeping nature of Kerry's pro-Israel stance.

These folks are supporting genocide. The only reason that Barak was not able to settle with the Palistinians is that they want the land from the sea to the river and nothing less will ever do. The rest of the Muslim world supports them and has pledged death to the Jew. Not anti-Zionist beliefs that the con men and spin artists talk about -- but death to all jews and slavery or death to Christians (Americans first).

I have always thought that you should first believe whhat people say most often. For the last nearly 1400 years the Muslims have had these beliefs, why would they change now. For a quick reality check, you can look in the current issue of Time and read in the section on Jefferson what the Barbary Muslims had to say 200 years ago. Roughly "Our Profit tells us Death or Slavery to Americans or other non-Muslims."

[Honestfreedom]

So Kerry can tell them he was against Israel before he was for Israel.

[goldstategop]

In general, yes. Americans support Israel both cause Israelis like us and there are shared values in common. There aren't too many countries that stand with us no matter what. I'll take Israel's support any day over that of France.