Democrats have second thoughts about Kerry over his strong Israel stance

Various ^ | July 2, 2004 | nwrep

[nwrep]

A "policy paper" put out by the Kerry campaign in which he reiterates his strong and unyielding support for Israel is causing many on the left to question their committment to John Kerry.

In the policy paper, which has not been released publicly, Kerry outlines clear, strongly worded positions on several issues important to the American Jewish community. He calls for more forceful action to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons, fully backs Israel's construction of a 425-mile-long barrier between Israel and the Palestinian territories that the paper refers to as ''a security fence," and pledges to work to push for a new Palestinian political class to replace Yasser Arafat, who is called a ''failed leader."

Earlier in the campaign, Kerry got off to a shaky start with some Jewish groups. Last October he called the barrier -- composed mostly of electronic fencing with razor wire and a ditch along a tracking road, but with some stretches made of concrete -- a ''barrier to peace." The new paper says building it is ''a legitimate right of self-defense" and ''not a matter" to be taken up by the International Court of Justice, which has criticized the move.

The Massachusetts senator earlier remarked that he might appoint James A. Baker III, secretary of state in the first Bush administration, a special peace negotiator.

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Reaction to this statement on Israel was swift. Many Kerry supporters on the left, who hold decidedly pro-Palestinian views, were appalled by the sweeping nature of Kerry's pro-Israel stance.

A sampling of the views of Kerry supporters on prominent Democratic websites show a fissure developing over this issue, leading many to question the wisdom of voting for Kerry, only because he is not Bush:

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The whole world watches in dismay

Bush Lite, anyone?

 I can't believe the number of times I've read something like that here

I'm not a Kerry basher, but I am appalled that anybody could seriously advocate ignoring a candidate's policies and position papers and instead cross their fingers and hope that he/she will have a different position once in office.

I sincerely hope that folks are not using this "logic" when they're out canvassing for Kerry. "Yeah, I know the GOP is telling you the guy's a flip-flopper, but it isn't true. Also, don't worry if you don't agree with any part of his platform, he'll do something totally different when he's in office."

It is our job as voters to research a candidate's positions and policies, even if we already support them. And if we disagree with that candidate, it is our job to decide how much we disagree - - if it's enough to change our vote or cause us to sit out the election. If we refuse to do so, we dishonor everyone who has ever fought for and died for the right to vote.

Sit out the vote??? That is a sure way for 4 more years of Bush.

I will sit out and I can't really support Kerry.


I have the feeling that members in Du are getting delusional by ignoring the real power behind the puppets candidates.All the scourges that befell this country are mostly due to the allegiance of the puppets to the real master... it is time to take back the country.

The only difference between bush and Kerry is that the latter is just a lite, a hunter ,he said .Can you see that this guy has no vision ? How could you wait until he is in office under the control of ADL and CO to figure out his real policy? ANd if you are trying to console yourself that this is not his real policy than hou could we trust another flip flap ? I am so mad!


I feel nothing but contempt... for this guy. Here he has a chance to lead the world into a safe harbor of peace and what does he do? He adopts the insane policies of Bush and panders to the Israelis. If he gets elected, we will still be fighting an uphill battle to regain our country. I'll be holding my nose on voting day.
Meet the new boss....


Endorses the annexation fence?!?!? You f*ing, f*ing idiot.


Why would Kerry, as a left-wing Democrat President, support a right-wing government and its rightist policies?


Perhaps Kerry isn't at 'left-wing' as some think that he is

I'm starting to regret my $50 donation to Kerry

First the driver's license issue, now stronger support of Israel. He already doesn't support gay marriage. F*k.

I guess I'll still vote for him, but he better start catering a bit more to my needs.

"but he better start catering a bit more to my needs" Or what? YOu won't vote for him? Thanks to the intense hatred of Bush, Kerry can do just about anything he wants and much of the left will vote for him. The battle is for swing voters. Liberal Republicans, conservative Democrats, etc. Most of the people at DU and most of the rest of the base has already pledged their support and votes, come hell or high water. Kerry and his campaign staff know this. That's why he's moving to the center (as candidates in both parties generally do after the primaries).


It's hard to come up with an argument beyond "He's not bush" when most of his stated policies are Republican-friendly.


That's the thing
Bush is so loathed that Kerry doesn't need anything beyond "he's not Bush" to secure the votes and, based on recent news, the money and support of his base. He's got your vote, he doesn't need your money (he's locked into $75 million after the convention anyway and has more than he can spend before it) and plenty of people will be working hard for him just because he's not Bush. The "true left" shouldn't hold its breath waiting for a bone from Kerry.

This has been going on for quite some time

For anyone watching the primaries, Kerry's position has always been in accordance with Lieberman's. Those who watched the debates know that Kerry obsessively attacked Howard Dean for even suggesting a more "even-handed"course regarding the I\P conflict.

How exactly am I to vote for this man if my left hand is holding my nose, and my right hand is holding a barf bag?
James Baker? ... you are quickly losing my vote, Senator Kerry.

Time for me to donate to Kerry's campaign...

this message

Rachel Corrie
American Citizen
Murdered by Israel
Paid for by US Tax Payers
Stop funding Israel's Apartheid Policies!!!

Do you really think Kerry cares? If he even utters the words "Rachel Corrie" between now and November you can start looking for the other horsemen of the apocalypse and a Cubs-Red Sox World Series. It ain't gonna happen.


Floor fight. I hope there is one.


Not a chance Which delegates would fight it? And in who's name? Like I said, Kerry can do anything he wants now. Hell, he could adopt Bush's platform verbatim and he'd not only het the nomination but the vast majority of the votes of the base (and much of the center that doesn't like Bush). He could go to the right of Bush on foreign policy and Israel and only gain voted for doing so. Face it, the dedicated left is locked into ABB and ABB=Kerry. He's not campaigning for your vote anymore. He figures that he's got it. Now he's campaigning for votes that would normally go to Bush.

Quit catering to the Zionists for Christ's sake.

Boy, Ralph may get my vote yet. That sounds just like Bushit.

Thanks, Kerry, you asshole.
And thanks, DNC/DLC, for sticking us with this kindler, gentler imperialist.
No, I won't vote b*sh. Neither will I shut up about the wrongness of Kerry's positions on foreign policy. Don't like it? Feel free to bite me.

Of course you won't vote for Bush

You're voting for Kerry, right? Or have you decided to not vote for him and my thesis (and Kerry's apparent belief) that Kerry doesn't need to sell himself to the left is all wrong?

 It looks like a safe bet for Kerry.

He knows that we are so anti-Bush he can get away with almost anything. I'm beginning to think Nader has a point. Nader could be the big beneficiary of the latest Kerry position.

I beginning to dread the presidential debates

What the hell does Kerry have to debate about?

He voted for *'s war.

He wants to "stay" the course in Iraq and even send more troops.

He is trying to get to the right of Bush on Israel, but there isn't two inches of manuevering room over there.

He likes most of Bush's tax cuts.

He is an ardent free trader,

What's Kerry's strongest debate point -- my wife's richer than your wife?

George Bush, idiot savant of Crawford Texas, wasn't given much chance of beating Al Gore in the 2000 debates -- but Bush wiped the mat with him.

Standing here today, I wouldn't bet two cents that Kerry will beat Bush in a debate -- Kerry has given away 80% of what matters allready.

My only question is this -- does Kerry pander on the issue of the Arab / Israeli dispute, or is he really to the right of Bush on this issue???? Either way, this is a dark day for the Democratic party.

[Defender2]

DemocRATs have second thoughts on kerry????

kerry stands with Israel? This is the flip. watch out for the flop!!!!

on another thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1164655/posts

kerry, faith values, same sentence???? Look at the link immediately below:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1164644/posts

More Interesting historical news about kerry:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1091943/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1160580/posts


Some of kerry's friends listed below:

http://www.cpusa.org/

http://www.dsausa.org/

DSA's "Progressive Caucas" Links below:

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/members.asp

The Enemy Within!!!!

[Friend of thunder]

My only question is this -- does Kerry pander on the issue of the Arab / Israeli dispute, or is he really to the right of Bush on this issue???? Either way, this is a dark day for the Democratic party.

Are these people ignorant or just anti-Semites?

No, Israel, just like the United States, is far from perfect. And I think some of the more extreme pro settlement people are misguided. But the country is fighting for its existence. I can understand some criticism of some of the more radical views – which, by the way, occurs in Israel (criticism that is) – but I have to believe that, to some extent, much of this is fueled by racism.

What is truly sad is our side – or pretenders to our side – are not totally free of this either.

[onyx]

Absolutely.
My feelings for Israel stand on their own.
I do not punish Israel for our American Jews
being mostly liberal democrats. That many
of them are also secular,... well that's
between them and God.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Is it really surprising that Kerry supporters would be anti-semites? Even given the fact that Israel is a socialist democracy (of sorts), in their fight against fascist Islam there can be little doubt on who's side a conservative would stand (as has been nore than evident in the past few years).

But since, in the view of the leftists, where the enemy of their enemy is their friend, they are, not surprisingly, aligning with the fascist islamists against the Judeo-Christian West. Such as they are, they have no understanding that, were the islamists to win, the leftist deviants would be the first to "lose their heads". But they are, alas, ignorant fools to the end.

What has been surprising to me is how many Jews and Christians still back the Democrats, whose agenda is without a doubt antithetical to most of their core values. Perhaps the islamist insurrection is a blessing in disguise, perhaps sent by the almighty, to wake his brethren from their long sleep.

[Slings and Arrows]

Pander Bear is at again.

[Mike Darancette]

I sense a bloody platform battle ahead for the RATS.

[185JHP]

Thanks. This is a useful post.

[Dolphy]

Thus a strong pro Israel position has all up side for Kerry and no down side.

Not exactly. Kerry doesn't generate any passion with the Dem base, he simply runs on the fumes of the Bush hatred. If he takes the same position on two of the issues that fuel the Bush hatred he won't get the voter turnout he needs. This is a solid step in creating apathy and indifference.

[SunkenCiv]

Kerry's Shifts: Nuanced Ideas or Flip-Flops?
By DAVID M. HALBFINGER
March 6, 2004
Posted on 03/05/2004 9:23:15 PM PST by FairOpinion

BOSTON, March 5 — When Senator John Kerry was speaking to Jewish leaders a few days ago, he said Israel's construction of a barrier between it and Palestinian territories was a legitimate act of self-defense. But in October, he told an Arab-American group that it was "provocative and counterproductive" and a "barrier to peace."

[Wolfhound777]

Where the hell do these posters on the DUa$$ website come from? They are completely clueless and if they paid money for a college education, they need to sue to get their money back. They don't understand the dymanics of the politics of the Middle East regarding the Palestinians, Israelis, or the Arab countries and to equate protecting US national interests with imperialism is way out there. Our education system is in serious trouble.

[I. M. Trenchant]

Right you are. In the prologue to the widely read The Secret War Against The Jews by John Loftus and Mark Aarons, the authors prominently site the following quotation and attribution (on the 4th page, immediately following their book-dedication on the 3rd page):

Fuck the Jews...they won't vote for us anyway. -- The Honorable James Baker, Secretary of State, United States of America (circa A.D. 1992)

Without addressing the disinction that must obviously be made between Jews (in general, as in this quotation) and Israel per se, there is no doubt that Loftus and Aarons consider(ed) Baker to have been "anti-Israeli." (see p.327 of the soft-cover edition).

[LS]

Ah, DU. If they ever re-institute the laws that force the mentally insane off the streets, they can find 99% of them at DU.

[massadvj]

Kerry can lose the Jewish vote in New York. He may need the Jewish vote in New York.

This isn't about the Jewish vote in New York. It's about the Jewish vote in Florida. The reason that state was so close last time was because conservative Jews voted to make Lieberman the first Jewish VP. Without Lieberman on the ticket, Kerry has little chance of repeating Gore's success in that state, which is critical to victory. So he panders based on policy, realligning himself with what he sees as the winning side, as he has done his entire career.

[bushfamfan]

We will need a military draft if Kerry is elected because who would want to serve under that traitor as CIC? We are looking at the last days of this country. If this country elects Kerry, it gets what it deserves really.

[Milligan]

I want Bush to win. I don't trust Kerry with the WOT. Kerry will treat terrorism as a law enforcement problem and give the UN too much authority with our troops involved. He knows WOT is important campaign issue but he has no plans. He will be another Cater when elected. We want to split the democrats and convince the anti-war crowd...Kerry...will continue the conflict in Iraq.

Divide and conquer.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[Grampa Dave]

"What has been surprising to me is how many Jews and Christians still back the Democrats, whose agenda is without a doubt antithetical to most of their core values."

They are JINOs and CINOs. They are not true Jews nor Christians.

Their religion is the religion of abortion and whatever the Rat party stands for.