Bush urges EU to let Turkey join

News Interactive ^ | 26 June 2004 | Agence France-Presse

[MegaSilver]

"It's an historic achievement. You are erasing the last traces of the Iron Curtain, and creating a new beginning for the continent," Bush said, adding that Turkey's addition would be the natural way forward for the EU.

Welcoming an Asian Muslim country into the European Union is the natural way forward?!

[RobbyS]

I would hold this out as carrot while hiding, but not well, the stick of a Kurdistan.

[per loin]

A foul insult to the memory of Leonidas.

[Cronos]

Well, the Muslimbit I'll go along with, but there is no clear demarcation between European and Asian -- the Mediterranean was one "continent" until the advent ofIslam. And racially, Turks are mostly caucasian, with the Kurds and Iranis being Aryans (or rather über -Aryans)

[Cronos]

A foul insult to the memory of Leonidas.

He fought against the Aryan Persians. THe Turks conquered GReece in the 1600s

[Cicero]

I don't think Turkey should be in the EU, because it isn't in Europe. But I do find it extremely amusing that Bush is giving the Euroswine this free advice. It exposes their hypocrisy to have a guy they think of as a Texas cowboy telling them they should be more multicultural and openminded.

[AgThorn]

violations of the rights of non-Muslim minorities.

I think Bush should think twice about what it is that is difficult for Europe to swallaw in allowing Turkey in, and get more than just verbal assurances that these items are corrected. Free speach, free religion, free assembly, etc. all should be in Turkey's constitution, with full removal of any preferencial treatment of one faith over another, before being admitted to the EU.

[MegaSilver]

He fought against the Aryan Persians. THe Turks conquered GReece in the 1600s

1453. That's when Constantinople, the crown jewel of Eastern Christianity, fell to the Ottomans. The grandest church in the Empire became a mosque.

Somthing of interest about that incident. The Byzantine Empire had been greatly reduced in size and influence, so its troops were outnumbered 20 to 1, yet they held out against their assailants for seven weeks. The lesson here is that Muslims, clinging as they do to a religion which is inherently culturally and technologically stagnant--propped up only when the West allows it to be propped up--are easy to hold out against, even to defeat, against seemingly overwhelming odds. You just have to actually FIGHT.

[Cronos]

1453. That's when Constantinople, the crown jewel of Eastern Christianity, fell to the Ottomans. The grandest church in the Empire became a mosque.

You are somewhat correct, my date of the 1600s is wrong. However, I think there was a difference between the fall of what is now GReece and the fall of Constantinople.

The Grandest Church -- the Hagia Sophia became a mosque (though the icons still remain, somewhat), it was a 6th/7th century church built by Justinian.

The dam**d Turks were helped by the French AND the English. Both the French and the English prevented Russia from reconquering Constantinople

[Cronos]

I don't think Turkey should be in the EU, because it isn't in Europe.

Actually it is in Europe. By that definition Russia is an Asian nation.

Even then, Europe as an entity doesn't really make sense, there is no physical demarcation marking it out as a separate continent (and don't say the Ural mountains, that's not a satisfactory demarcation). There should be only 1 continent from Japan to England --Eurasia.

[RightWhale]

EU should also allow Congo, Sudan, and Zimbabwe in.

[cyborg]

What is Bush smoking?

[MegaSilver]

Even then, Europe as an entity doesn't really make sense, there is no physical demarcation marking it out as a separate continent (and don't say the Ural mountains, that's not a satisfactory demarcation). There should be only 1 continent from Japan to England --Eurasia.

Europe is more a reflection of human culture than physical geography. In that sense, Russia might well fit in; Turkey would definitely NOT.

[MegaSilver]

What is Bush smoking?

His logic is something like this: We're fighting a war on terror. We need closer relationships with the Muslim world to win. This can be helped by allowing Turkey into the EU.

It's an understandable way of looking at the picture, but it is also a grossly oversimplified one.

[Cronos]

Europe is more a reflection of human culture than physical geography.

somewhat true. If you're talking about Christian Culture then at one time Christendom included Egypt, North Africa, Syria, Turkey etc. and the Ethiopians were Christians before most of Europe. Culturally, again before the advent of slam, Egypt, Syria etc. would be part of European culture.

[Aetius]

Didn't the Greeks have a shot at retaking it too back in the early 1900s? Its a shame that it now bears a different name.

[Cronos]

EU should also allow Congo, Sudan, and Zimbabwe in.

Now that's plain silly. Turkey is contiguous geographically with the EU and it's economy is tied to the EU's. the Congo, Sudan and Zimbabwe aren't

[Cronos]

Didn't the Greeks have a shot at retaking it too back in the early 1900s? Its a shame that it now bears a different name.

Yes, they did in 1919 to 1923 when they waged a war against the Turkish govt under Ataturk. they lost and the Turks expelled all the GReeks from Anatolia and carried out the genocide of the Armenians and Assyrians with the help of the Kurds. tHe Kurds were the men on the ground during the Holocaust.

[Aetius]

I was thinking there was an earlier moment, perhaps during the last days of WWI where the Greeks could have overrun Constantinople but they were basically told not to by the greater Western powers. Maybe I'm way off. I'll look it up sometime.

[RightWhale]

Turkey is contiguous geographically with the EU and it's economy is tied to the EU's. the Congo, Sudan and Zimbabwe aren't

Contiguous? Does EU still rely on donkey carts? What did they do when Africa was colonized, use lost technology?