Posted on 06/21/2004 9:28:42 PM PDT by quidnunc
I don't agree with the cute "Ugly American" tag. I think it's another example of envy of the big guy. It's nice for some European to dismiss an American who's acting inappropriately with that tag and simultaneously slam America in general.
I got to observe some Euro politics when I stayed at a friend's house north of London in the mid-80s. I'm not generally interested in Europe since my ancient relatives were kicked out some 250 years ago! Anyway, some of the older Britons were very concerned about the coming European Union and how Germany was anticipated to dominate it.
These people lived through WWII. The thinking was that Germany is a fundamentally aggressive powerhouse that had been beaten down twice but eventually would rise again. Several years later I worked with a German. He was talking about the Turks in Germany and the trouble they were creating. I said something like "they're citizens though" and he quickly replied (imagine a strong German accent here), "zay are NOT Germans". The finality of his tone was somewhat chilling. I guess I've seen too many WWII movies :)
After seeing the mess that absorbing East Germany caused, I'm not so worried about Germany becoming aggressive anytime soon. Especially not militarily. I imagine it will take a severe recession or depression before the general attitude over there will change.
BUMP
"or bomb Taxes posters"
I would actually agree to bomb Taxes, but you probably meant to switch the vowels.
As mentioned, I think we probably would agree on most issues. Perhaps a poor habit at FR is the tendency to nitpick at the language used, rather than assume someone meant other than what was written.
Have a nice day. :0)
Wow Betis, not really a very astute study are you?
In fact, Germany was not really a country until 1872. This followed successive wars on the part of Prussia, led by Bismarc, against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and France (After which Alsace and Lorraine became German provinces - most people don't know that the French got their butts kicked 3 times by Germany - well actually it was Prussia and this is if you don't count Waterloo).
The next fifty years of peace in Europe saw huge flows of trade between America and Germany. There was no military alliance because there was no strategic interest for their to be one (Would Thailand ally itself with say, Chile?). Only strong economic ties.
At the outset of WWI, the US most certainly wanted to remain neutral. When the talk of getting involved in the war began, it was unclear who the US should support. There were quite a few advocates for getting involved on the German side.
Unfortunately (and this would take too much space to describe in adequate detail) certain elements in the German military saw fit to act quite inappropriately. This sinking of the Lusitania and unrestricted submarine warfare brought the US in on the side of the Allies.
Had the French not pursued a policy of reparations WWII might not of happened, but essentially it was the continuation of the European civil war that found its end by facing the common Russian enemy and the patriarchal presence of the American military.
However, German states played roles in both sides of the American revolution: remember von Steuben? as well as huns fighting as mercenaries for the British.
But in terms of the length during which alliances last and what "tradition" in terms of international relations mean, look back into history and you will find that 3 generations as an ally is quite a long time.
Germany is and has been a sovereign state for quite some time and has consistently supported US policy, often in the face of opposition from neighbours and its own knee-jerk peacenik citizens.
The "we don't need anyone, we can do it alone" attitude is perhaps the most dangerous trend to come out of the neo-con experiment. Isolationism in terms of disengagement is one thing, an interventionist, isolationist attitude is just plain weird, not to mention dangerous.
Are you really proposing our disagreements with Europe, and the resultant rancor, stem from a failure to observe mutually agreed upon diplomatic protocols?
Yes and no. It is the perception of the United States that has suffered as a result of what, especially but not only, Rumsfeld has said.
As far as the disagreements are concerned, they are based on different ways of perceiving a certain situations. However, had the adminstration not made it politically impossible for Democratically elected officials in Europe to do anything but listen to their outraged constituency, those disagreements could have been smoothed over behind closed doors.
If you think that the current adminstration has handled Europe properly, then I would hate to see what a failure would look like.
Ah, I see it was already posted. Thanks.
Great article. Should be shown to all idiotic rabid liberals.
But they're so full of hatred for the USofA, they have no common sense much less logic anymore.
"Blessed are those who are hated for my sake...."
Oh, well *that* would make you the absolute WORST, wouldn't it? ;-D You - you - you horrid, evil American Jew, you! ;-)
Wait a minute - are you a male, too? That would ensure your place as the worst possible person there could be!
I'm glad the rest of the world hates me and I am proud to be a non-Jewish supporter of Jews and Israel.
"It's the result of an ingrown European sense of unearned entitlement. That same sense of entitlement is at the root of Europe's belief that the US needs to kiss up to them."
Actually, I prefer to call it simply the "Chihuahua Syndrome". Little dogs have arrogant bad attitudes; feelings of inadequacy for their small size cause lash-outs? Also known as the Napolean Complex.
" much of the output of our entertainment business that the rest of the world sees is trash and morally reprehensible, and draws an ugly picture of our fine country."
Actually, even these days, when you see the disgusting things Euro's commonly put out, most of our current entertainment would blush. Oh, and I must include the magazines. It's a matter of degree, but I've seen some of the immoral tripe they put out mass-market. So I've always sort of doubted that premise that our entertainment is so "trashy" to them - perhaps in reality it's "childishly" Puritan to them, and *that's* what they hate about it!
Ditto to your parenthetical statement.
Amazing how all those self-professed "non-conformists" (i.e., liberals) so badly want us to conform to the rest of the world. Hypocrites.
"Essentially an ugly American is simply an American. The only American a European is willing to tolerate is an American who does not possess any discernible American values or characteristics, and one who is willing to badmouth and ridicule his own country to foreigners."
I've never been to Europe (or anywhere else), but I've suspected this all along. An "Ugly American" is simply a guy used to acting a certain way from a certain culture. You'd think so many Americans had been rude, arrogant and directly insulting to Europeans the way they use this phrase.
As if there is no such thing as an Ugly Briton, an Ugly Frenchie, an Ugly German, an Ugly Indian, or an Ugly Japanese.
not to the Muslims........... you missed the point.
The Muslims are morons, but you missed the point.
Well you got me there. I bow to your superior intellect. Three generations of support is now a traditional ally. And strong economic ties makes one an ally. I guess that makes Japan a traditional ally too. Same with South Korea. And Mexico. And Brasil.
And yes ole 'Baron' von Steuben came here on the urging of the Prussian government and not because he was out of work for 7 years. Or did you just gloss over that part of history? And yes he really was a general, and not just a captain when he served in the Prussian army.
Tell me Mr Astute Historian why you neglected to mention the Hesse-Kassel Jaegers Korps and their role in the American Revolution? Oh, you see, they helped burn a major port in my home state, fighting on the side of the British. And gee, they were from Prussia.
But Prussia/Germany really helped us out when we needed it. Yup, they sure are a traditional ally.
You're correct, the (many) Germans/Prussians/Hessians/Teutons who fought on the rebel side ("American") in the RevWar basically did so of their own volition.
Some of the duchies (as stated, there was no big Germany, only many kingdoms), basically all Hesse-X, went in w/Britain as mercenaries.
So any official gov support came on the Brit side.
But there were many Germans, both genuine Old Country and colonists, who sided w/the rebels.
Hey, to be more clear to you.... it is the ignorant Muslims' perspective that you should TRY to understand when they see the crap coming out of Hollywood. You and I both know that these Muslims are very demented, but, our entertainment business must clean up their corrupt act. They are helping to bring the country down with their never-ending filth!
I just wanted to thank you for your reasoned discourse. Altho I disagree w/you on how the American admin should act, etc, I'm sure we agree alot, and I appreciate your even-handed approach. You take *alot* to get riled up and start insulting in retaliation! (Unlike me! I'm more of a hot-head, but it's tempered if the opponent is polite and more analytical than hysterical.)
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