Posted on 06/21/2004 9:28:42 PM PDT by quidnunc
I have sometimes thought the hatred (not just envy ) for America that we are seeing now may be that some of the rest of the people of the world see America as a nation greatly controlled by some Jews. They certainly seem to equate the direction of our society (movies, music, entertainment in general) to the influences of the Jewish community. It is a sentiment that is growing and must be extinguished.
I must say though, much of the output of our entertainment business that the rest of the world sees is trash and morally reprehensible, and draws an ugly picture of our fine country. This should be improved.
These are alarming, confusing and dangerous days.
From 1991 to 2003, what was the relationship between Germany, France, and Russia towards Saddam and Iraq? If I am not mistaken, they were doing business with evil. And you want the United States to be diplomatic towards nations that assist and abet a terrorist nation in their goal to eliminate the United States? You are insane!
Here is an ugly American thought for you. Germany, France, and all of Europe owe their very existance to the United States. We liberated/conquered Europe in 1945 and instead of saying up puppet government as Germany, France, England, et al, would have done, we returned your nations to you. Europe should kiss our feet and do our bidding from then until the end of time.
And I say your nations because you have made it evident that you side more with Europe than with your own nation. That is sad but because of the concept of America, you are allowed to do so. My opinion of Europe is low just as your of your own countrymen is low. Stay there. In this country, you would only work to make us weaker.
Amen and well said! But when we tend to see modern Europeans as a pack of snarling ingrates, we should apply the caveat that these are mainly Western Europeans, made and kept free by the U.S. Let us not forget that the newly-free nations of Eastern Europe are clammering to join NATO and profess their support for America. Hmmm.... must mean that the latter know what it's really like to live without freedom for decades, while their neighbors to the west, during the same period, exercised their freedom to behave like spoiled brats.
The comfort of knowing that we're loved by the world as we go down in flames somehow isn't quite enough. Thankfully there are still enough sane people around to opt for what is right.
(Doing something "because everybody else is doing it" is not a response we would accept from our children. Why on earth would we consider leaders who would think this way?)
America was founded by those that rejected their homeland or were rejected-this in the end is our common bond with the Jews. Americans, and Jews just will not put up with the civic and social injustices that various states and governments seem to fall into elswhere in the world. We are a thorn in the side of every despot, socialist, monarch and dictator-essentially most of the rest of the world.
Your fellow countrymen voted him in, live with it. If you are so concerned, work to change it.
"A different attitude would have meant a different German government and an additional, traditional European ally."
We do not need or want fair weather "allies". If you do not have the backbone to stand up for what is right without expecting to have your butt kissed then you deserve the pos country you have created,
Socialist, Muslims and Eurotrash blowhards define the Europe of today and W did not create that. So get off your whinny A$$ and do something about it because you are becoming more irrelevant every day.
"If you do not have the backbone to stand up for what is right without expecting to have your butt kissed then you deserve the pos country you have created"
Although the words you have written seem confused I get the sense of what you are trying to say and I could have written then same thing to you circa 1993 - 2001. So how do you explain American inaction during 8 years of Clinton?
Give me a break. It seems that you should encourage people with my attitude who support what the US is doing and would like other Europeans to do so as well. But, I guess you would rather just go it alone. Alas, I often find Freepers represent themselves as the stereotype of what Europeans hate. As much as I know that this isn't true, I would hope that you can understand that 2000 years of brutal war mostly resulting from misunderstandings creates cultures that put high value on diplomatic speech.
And yes, I have been around long enough to take what is written with a grain of salt.
Having now traveled extensively in Europe for both business and pleasure, I no longer believe that.
I have gotten on a tram in Freiburg and gotten dirty looks for asking the conductor to repeat himself because I am used to Hochdeutsch and couldn't understand his thick, Schwabische accent.
I was polite, I spoke German. Still I was unacceptable.
The next day on the same tram line a group of about 15 drunken football supporters came running through the tram cars shouting football chants and stinking of sweat and cheap beer. Most of them appeared to be in their mid-30s.
No one on the tram reacted as negatively to them as they did to me the previous day.
Maybe teenage American tourists behave as badly as those middle-aged Germans did, but I doubt it.
Essentially an ugly American is simply an American. The only American a European is willing to tolerate is an American who does not possess any discernible American values or characteristics, and one who is willing to badmouth and ridicule his own country to foreigners.
It really is childish how a European businessman will be polite to you until he discovers you support the President and then he will become sullen and rude.
Strange that you would ask the conductor rather than someone else in the car. In fact, I have never been on a Strassen-Bahn, S-bahn or U-Bahn in which the conductor was not fully separated by plastic in a separate room and that anything other than shouting distress was possible to communicate. Keeps them from getting distracted and/or attacked.
Thus, you story sounds a bit dubious and I really need to wonder what you were doing to elicit such a reaction.
Moreover, if you are totally uncritical of your government and the things that it does, that doesn't make you very American at all. Just a Bushbot.
Not strange at all. It was a small three-car tram with the conductor/driver standing right next to the ticket machine as you enter the head car.
I think the normal impulse, when you have a question and there is a uniformed employee right in front of you, is to ask the uniformed employee.
Thus, you story sounds a bit dubious and I really need to wonder what you were doing to elicit such a reaction.
As far as I can tell, I didn't do anything. Maybe I seemed really hurried (I was). But it's very nice of you to assume I'm lying.
Just a Bushbot.
Empty buzzwords really make you seem like a deep, independent thinker.
You've missed my essential point. If a European says to me: "I don't think it was wise for America to invade Iraq" they're certainly entitled to that opinion and it won't preclude me from having a civil conversation with them. If a European, especially a German, makes a sick and stupid comment like "Hitler had two sons - Bush and Sharon!" then I will ignore them.
However I have told European businesspeople that I think the invasion of Iraq was regrettable but necessary in more or less those words - not shouting "USA!!! USA!!! Kick their ass and take their gas!!!" or using provocative language of any kind, and yet I've rudely been given the cold shoulder.
It is common among people with leftist sympathies to assume that anyone who disagrees with them is evil.
BTW, my younger brother is a captain in the US Army and served in Baqubah with the 4ID. He spent six months there in the Sunni triangle and he feels that he has been able to do a lot of good. He's taken fire and seen friends die and he still believes that our mission in Iraq was worthwhile and necessary. Is he a "Bushbot" too? Or is he allowed to disagree with you without being insulted?
Alright, perhaps the problem is that you and I have had much different experiences in Germany.
1. I have honestly never been presented with such a crude joke that you describe. This is not to say that they arent made because uneducated Germans are as crude as uneducated Americans. The Germans I know would be embarassed by that as much as you would be by the behaviour you (quite amusingly) described as inappropriate for an American
2. Perhaps the public transport in Freiburg is different from that of the cities in which I have been. I was only in Freiburg in a car. But, in all the major cities, there is no ticket taker in the tram. The tickets are all automatic and the conductor only is responsible for the vehicle. Perhaps it is different in Freiburg, but you can forgive me for finding your story a bit dubious based on my experience in every major German city.
3. Pride in your country and total non-questioning agreement with the government are two different things. You wrote that only those who criticized their own government could be friends of the Europeans. The implication was that you did not criticize the government. The going term for an uncritical unquestioning love of the current administration at FR is Bushbot.
If you want an nuanced, intellectual discussion of policy, I am game. But you might be disappointed to find that we agree on most issues. I must just speak German and "European" a bit better.
My explanation of the clinton years is that it exemplifies what happens when a society starts to slip down the slope of moral degradation. Although we were successful in impeachment proceedings and correctly defining his true legacy it lasted too long and cost the country too much.
"Give me a break."
Please do me the honor of accepting my heartfelt offer of a break.
"I guess you would rather just go it alone"
Actually we would rather do it with greatful allies that will stand by our side when things are tough rather than cut and run.
"I often find Freepers represent themselves as the stereotype of what Europeans hate.
I often find that Europeans represent themselves as the sterotype of what Freepers dislike.
Lol. I have to give credit where credit is due. That was a great response.
Sounds just like the democrats.
>>A different attitude would have meant a different German government and an additional, traditional European ally.
When were they an ally? In WWI? WWII? Did they do much of anything during the Cold War other than stick their hand out and ask for protection and then turn around and protest putting nukes and tanks in Europe to accomplish said protection? Germany is no ally and never has been. Hard to call a one-way alliance in the last 50 years a 'tradition'.
France was an ally many times, but I do not consider them much of one any longer.
Ridiculous. Your understanding of history is laughable or pitiful or both.
So Germany was our ally up until WWI? I'd like to see when that was. Could it have been during the Spanish-American war? The War of 1812? The Mexican-American war? The Revolutionary War? France was behind us in two of those wars, both at very nascent stages of nationhood.
When was Germany an ally back then?
And in WWI, we were fighting who? Sure wasn't France.
I guess we weren't fighting Germans in WWII either.
And 50 years is a tradition now. Interesting. I think your view of history is clouded by a few years of tepid support.
I'll admit that they offered some good aid after 9/11, even letting their pilots training at Holloman patrol our skies.
3. Pride in your country and total non-questioning agreement with the government are two different things. You wrote that only those who criticized their own government could be friends of the Europeans. The implication was that you did not criticize the government. The going term for an uncritical unquestioning love of the current administration at FR is Bushbot.
I had arguments with some friends in these lines. What irked me is that I would disagree with many policies of Bush administration and point out some of his personal weaknesses but wholeheartedly agree with the Iraq policy and I'll be called a Bushbot, but they will critique anything and everything without offering any alternative actions, and they consider themselves thinkers just because they criticize the government. I can't accept this. I believe (from what I read and some limited personal experience) that Europeans are so hung on balancing US superpower, that they loose sight of who and what is doing the balancing. Jokes that Bush is worse than Saddam or bin Laden, or world maps without USA, or bomb Taxes posters: it is not a serious argument, but isn't it representative of the popular mindset in Europe?
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