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Israel in alliance with Kurds
UK Guardian ^

Posted on 06/20/2004 10:22:18 PM PDT by BlackJack

Israeli military and intelligence operatives are active in Kurdish areas of Iran, Syria and Iraq, providing training for commando units and running covert operations that could further destabilise the entire region, according to a report in the New Yorker magazine.

The article was written by Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter who exposed the abuse scandal in Abu Ghraib. It is sourced primarily to unnamed former and current intelligence officials in Israel, the United States and Turkey.

Israel's aims, according to Hersh, are to build up the Kurdish military strength in order to offset the strength of the Shia militias and to create a base in Iran from which they can spy on Iran's suspected nuclear-making facilities.

"Israel has always supported the Kurds in a Machiavellian way - a balance against Saddam," one former Israeli intelligence officer told the New Yorker. "It's Realpolitik. By aligning with the Kurds Israel gains eyes and ears in Iran, Iraq and Syria. The critical question is 'What will the behaviour of Iran be if there is an independent Kurdistan with close ties to Israel? Iran does not want an Israeli land-based aircraft carrier on its border."

By supporting Kurdish separatists, Israel also risks alienating its Turkish ally and undermining attempts to create a stable Iraq. "If you end up with a divided Iraq it will bring more blood, tears and pain to the Middle East and you will be blamed," a senior Turkish official told Mr Hersh.

Intel Brief, an intelligence newsletter produced by former CIA chiefs, noted early this month that the Israeli actions are placing increasing stress on their relationship with Turkey, which was already strained over the war. "The Turks are increasingly concerned by the expanding Israeli presence in Kurdistan and alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state."

According to Mr Hersh, Israel decided to step up its role in Kurdistan last summer after it was clear that the United States incursion into Iraq was failing, principally because it feared the chaos would strengthen Iran. The Israelis are particularly concerned that Iran may be developing a nuclear capability.

Iran said on Saturday it would reconsider its suspension of some uranium enrichment activities after the International Atomic Energy Agency issued a resolution deploring Iran's limited cooperation with the agency.

In the autumn the former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak told the US vice president, Dick Cheney, that America had lost in Iraq. Israel "had learned that there's no way to win an occupation," he told Mr Cheney, and the only issue was "choosing the size of your humiliation".

From July last year, argues Mr Hersh, the Israeli government started what one former Israeli intelligence official called "Plan B" in order to protect itself from the fallout of the chaos prompted by America's failure ahead of June 30. If the June 30 transfer of sovereignty does not go well, "there is no fallback, nothing," a former National Security Council member tells Hersh. "The neocons still think they can pull the rabbit out of the hat in Iraq," a former intelligence official says. "What's the plan? They say, 'We don't need it. Democracy is strong enough. We'll work it out.'"

Israel has a longstanding relationship with the Kurds, whom they regard as one of the few non-Arab allies in the area. The Iraqi Kurds, who played a key role in providing the United States with intelligence ahead of the war, have been angered by the United Nations resolution on Iraq earlier this month. The resolution did not affirm the interim constitution that granted them minority veto power in a permanent constitution and so could potentially leave them sidelined.

One Turkish official told Mr Hersh that Kurdish independence would be calamitous for the region. "The lesson of Yugoslavia is that when you give one country independence everybody will want it. Kirkuk will be the Sarajevo of Iraq. If something happens there, it will be impossible to contain the crisis."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iraq; israel; kurds
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I apologize ahead of time if this has been posted. I searched but did not find this so here it is.
1 posted on 06/20/2004 10:22:19 PM PDT by BlackJack
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To: BlackJack

If true, I think Israel should butt out of this for the time being.


2 posted on 06/20/2004 10:24:51 PM PDT by Texasforever (When Kerry was asked what kind of tree he would like to be he answered…. Al Gore.)
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To: Texasforever

Butt out?

Are you kidding?

I think the idea is to get them to beat the crap out of each other.

Divide and conquer.


3 posted on 06/20/2004 10:31:10 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo)
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To: Texasforever

why??? If Israel goes in and knocks out their Nukes, better for us and we didn't do it. What's wrong with that? They did it in Iraq and you are better off for it.


4 posted on 06/20/2004 10:32:52 PM PDT by fish hawk
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To: Luis Gonzalez

The elephant in the room is Turkey. Turkey has a good relationship with Israel and a very tense relationship with Iraqi Kurds and this kind of covert action could make things very dicey. It also puts the Kurds in a very bad situation and I don't want anything to happen to them again. If there is one group in Iraq that deserves freedom it is the Kurds. No, this is too delicate a time for Israel to be playing geo-politics in Iraq.


5 posted on 06/20/2004 10:37:55 PM PDT by Texasforever (When Kerry was asked what kind of tree he would like to be he answered…. Al Gore.)
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To: BlackJack

Logic Lesson 101:

Israel is the ally of all civilized peoples.

Kurds have demonstrated that they are civilized.

Therefore, it logically follows that:

Israel is the ally of the Kurds.


6 posted on 06/20/2004 10:38:06 PM PDT by RonHolzwarth
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To: BlackJack; Texasforever; Luis Gonzalez; fish hawk

Smart - it is in Israel's interests to have the Kurds set up a state in the region to destabilize Turkey, Syria, Iran and break up Iraq into three weaker entities. Now I know the Turks and Israel have some sort of ad hoc alliance but I am sure the Israelis would give that up for the chance to break up all these enemies - and maybe a weaker Turkey minus Kurdistan would be even more in need of Israel?


7 posted on 06/20/2004 10:39:27 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: BlackJack
You also have to factor in the malice of "former CIA officers" and "Anonymous" and others who feed Hersh daily. Some of them would like to return to the CIA in higher positions courtesy of their patron - John Kerry. This kind of back stabbing has been around Washington since Thomas Jefferson lived in the White House - what's new is that journalists now do not mention the possible bias of their sources.
8 posted on 06/20/2004 10:40:17 PM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: Destro
Smart - it is in Israel's interests to have the Kurds set up a state in the region to destabilize Turkey, Syria, Iran

Not so smart in my opinion. Israel is working against OUR interests in this case which is a unified and free Iraq. Now, Israel may have decided that OUR interests are not THEIR interests and that is fine because sovereign nations must act in their own interests but Israel may be biting off more than it can chew here.

9 posted on 06/20/2004 10:44:45 PM PDT by Texasforever (When Kerry was asked what kind of tree he would like to be he answered…. Al Gore.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
This story is widely assuming the creation of a Kurdish state. With the competing influences of Iran and Turkey, and with the US a leader of the fallout, there will be no Kurdistan in the long term.
___________________________________________________________

London (KurdishMedia.com) 07 June 2004: The US-imposed Iraq’s interim Prime Minister, Ayad Allawi, has announced that the Kurdish peshmerge are amongst nine of the country’s major "militias" that will be disband, with militia members either joining the country’s security service or re-entering civilian life, reported news agencies on Monday.

The PUK and the KDP, according to the agencies, have agreed to disarm peshmerga forces and peshmerga forces are labeled militia forces, a name that the PUK and KDP are not comfortable with.

The US have bowed to Muqtada Al-Sadir’s pressure and the US have dropped its demand for the cleric’s arrest. Al-Sadir, unlike PUK and KDP, refused to disarme his Mahdi Army.

Kurds believe that the beginning of the end of the nearly 13-year-old Kurdistan de facto state has started.
10 posted on 06/20/2004 10:45:58 PM PDT by endthematrix (To enter my lane you must use your turn signal!)
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To: BlackJack

Seymour "Kapo" Hersh is saying it like it's a bad thing...

Gosh, I despise that guy.


11 posted on 06/20/2004 10:50:18 PM PDT by adam_az (Call your State Republican Party office and VOLUNTEER!!!!)
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To: Texasforever

"The elephant in the room is Turkey. Turkey has a good relationship with Israel and a very tense relationship with Iraqi Kurds and this kind of covert action could make things very dicey."

Turkey put the kibbosh on their Israel alliance once the Islamic party came into power.

Expect their India relationship to sour too, now that the Socialists won office from the BJP.


12 posted on 06/20/2004 10:52:17 PM PDT by adam_az (Call your State Republican Party office and VOLUNTEER!!!!)
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To: Texasforever

The Israelis have had connections with Kurdish nationalists since the late 1950s if I recollect what I read in the past accuarately. There was some anger during the Shamir government that he "abandoned" the Kurds in the early 1990s.

Actually, I agree with Israeli support for several reasons. One, the Kurds and Israelis have common cause. Historically, Jews and Kurds are interchangeable in many an Arab mind (there was an old Armenian saying regarding the Arab totem pole of people they hate--Jews and Kurds rank at the bottom) and that shared experience of intolerance and open hatred *is* a bond.

Also, gives the US some operating room in negoiations and keeps our name out of some nasty business that needs to be taken care of but would leave us diplomatically exposed.

The Kurds and the Israelis are the only people willing to take a bullet for us. By getting involved in Syria and Iran they are doing what is necessary to help achieve our goals in the region and to prevent both the Shia/Baathist/Wahabbi fascists from gaining the upper hand.

Finally, I'd rather see a ME dominated by people who like us rather than those who hate us. The Israelis and Kurds fit the bill.

As for the Turks? They can go &^%$# themselves.


13 posted on 06/20/2004 10:53:16 PM PDT by lavrenti (I'm not bad, just misunderstood.)
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To: lavrenti
Also, gives the US some operating room in negoiations and keeps our name out of some nasty business that needs to be taken care of but would leave us diplomatically exposed

That may all be true and if it is I have no problem with it BUT if Israel has pitted its own national interests in Iraq against our national interests in Iraq this could be a serious breach of trust. There is nothing the Arab world, and many in the Western world, would like better than to use something like this to bolster their claims that we invaded Iraq as a part of the "Zionist" conspiracy.

14 posted on 06/20/2004 11:02:39 PM PDT by Texasforever (When Kerry was asked what kind of tree he would like to be he answered…. Al Gore.)
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To: Texasforever

Since when has a unified Iraq been in our interests? Forcing Kurdistan to be a part of Iraq is just sheer lunacy. The Kurds have had national universities, a working parliament and a developing infrastructure for the last 13 years. Forcing them back into Iraq would ruin one of the regions in the Middle East which are our allies. The quicker we establish an offically recognized Kurdistan, the better. Our fickle "allies" Turkey can go to hell as far I'm concerned.


15 posted on 06/20/2004 11:06:25 PM PDT by ChicagoRepublican
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To: ChicagoRepublican
Since when has a unified Iraq been in our interests? Forcing Kurdistan to be a part of Iraq is just sheer lunacy.

Well that "lunacy" is our present policy. It may not be the right policy but it is what we are implementing. So, like it or not, If the Israelis have another arrangement in mind then they are working against US policy.

16 posted on 06/20/2004 11:10:42 PM PDT by Texasforever (When Kerry was asked what kind of tree he would like to be he answered…. Al Gore.)
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To: Texasforever

Turkey just elected an Islamic government, which is backing away from arrangements with the Israelis. The Israelis may have to deal with Iran's nukes at the US' behest. Why would you be against the massive amounts of humintel the Kurds could provide?


17 posted on 06/20/2004 11:12:43 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: adam_az

He's always been a real POS.


18 posted on 06/20/2004 11:13:58 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: Texasforever

The Israeli involvement with the Kurds is a known quantity. They've been careful about it for decades, especially because of their relationship with Turkey.

We need the Kurds to watch over what's going on in Iran and to help make Baby Assad's life uncomfortable.

I'm not too worried about the perception the Arab/European mind has going for the potential of a Kurdish/Israeli backfire. I don't think there can be much more in the way of terrorism and vile speech spewed from them, as it is.


19 posted on 06/20/2004 11:16:26 PM PDT by lavrenti (I'm not bad, just misunderstood.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


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