Posted on 06/18/2004 4:44:35 PM PDT by tlrugit
Ok, I guess the way I worded that it does sound like I got my facts mixed up. But I still stand by what I said in that not all protestants came from RCC. There were christian bodies in existance since the time of Christ that had nothing to do with RCC. If I still had my book "The Protestant Reformation" I could fill you in on which groups those were. Unfortunately during all my traveling in the military I lost things along the way. That was one of them, and I cry every time I think about it. These groups, as I said, were in existance before the Reformation and came out and identified with the reformers when the movement started.
There ya go, what he said!
that's a nice gift, but did Bush bring anything else, like a DVD or cookies or a gift certificate?
A fellow protestant if I ever heard one. Keep up the faith my man, we'll see each other when we receive out rewards.
Amen Brother!!
signed
Your Sister (why does everyone think I am a guy, I'm starting to get a complex....lol)
You have no real history backing you up. The facts are that the Ambrosian Rite (AKA Milanese Rite) was not a secret Church, just a litergical rite as distinguished from the Gregorian/Roman Rite; in fact there are some churches (mostly in Milan, but I think also in some of the Swiss Cantons) that are permitted to use the Ambrosian Rite litergy in the Mass. You don't seem to have the education to know what I'm talking about, but there have alwas been different liturgical rites used in the Church. It is true that in some areas Ambrosian Rite Christians resisted reforming to the standerdized liturgy of the Gregorian Rite, and this maybe where you are getting confused with the idea that they were a secret sect of the "true Church" surpressed by the Popes (not that it really was the Popes, the Christian princes of the west also wanted to standardize their liturgies; Charlemagne tried to abolish the Ambrosian Rite for instance), but this is not the case. The Ambrosian Rite Catholics were in communion with the Pope, just as the Greek churches were back then. And, as I said, if you really want to I'm sure you could go to Milan and see an Ambrosian Rite Mass for yourself (also there is some Ambrosian Rite chant you can buy on CD, I believe Ensemble Organum did a recording of it once).
As to the Waldensians, you will have to show me some evidince that the Waldensians can be historically traced to before Peter Waldo of Lyons c. 13th century. Preferably the evidence should be some primary sources combined with a scholarly analysis, not, I repeat, not simply sectarian polemics; if that's all you can give me you can stop right there. Otherwise you will have to admit that you only take it on faith that they existed before Peter Waldo :).
Opps, me bad. I am so sorry. I'll be sure and not make that mistake again, at least until the next time I make that mistake again. Oy vey, now I know I'm getting old...:-((
P.S. I'm impressed at your knowledge, not every day I meet a lady with the knowledge you seem to possess.
Where and why were they hiding before the Romanist persecutions? I haven't heard that one yet.
And, we're the ones re-writing history? That's a hoot. We didn't have to re-write history, we saved it. You can read it for yourself sometime.
Dr. Rice's father was a Presbyterian minister. Her family has been Presbyterian for several generations. She is also Presbyterian.
I thought the antichrist was not supposed to be on the scene until after all the gentiles had heard the gospel, and the Jews as a nation convert too. I don't think either has happened yet. Most speculation I have read suggests an upcoming big chastisement followed by an era of peace, the conversions, then the apostacy, then the antichrist who would not be a pope but could very well be a false one. A lot of people have speculated that the real pope is run out and in exile at this point.
Bwahahahahaha! Good one.
Fantastic! Go Bush .. and go RJN (Richard John Neuhaus)!
What a great interview. Thanks for posting.
Opps, me bad. I am so sorry. I'll be sure and not make that mistake again, at least until the next time I make that mistake again. Oy vey, now I know I'm getting old...:-((
P.S. I'm impressed at your knowledge, not every day I meet a lady with the knowledge you seem to possess.
LOL I was only kidding, no need to apologize. And thanks for the p.s. Its hard to find people of like mind. I have learned over the years, that even with all the knowledge, one can't forget mercy. Alot of people think I am attacking them, but I am attacking the falsehood that holds them.....the systems. I always feel like I need to protect them and I guess you just can't. They have a right to their freedom too. BUT I still run my mouth and still hope....somewhere a light bulb will go off, they will see the forest....lol....you know can't see the forest for the trees...lol. Take care...God Bless.
LOL! Actually, it reminds me of my local conservative circle, where the Libertarians are ripping themselves into shreds while at the same time tearing apart the GOP which is busy fragmenting within itself and - well, you get the idea.
Hey, guys, let's keep our eyes on the prize and keep moving ahead. Otherwise, the wolf (Islam) is going to get us all, regardless of our positions on atonement, sola scriptura, or even the Bishop of Rome.
Jesus built his Church on Peter, the Popes are descended through that line. That some Popes were evil and at odds with the teachings of Christ is a separate issue.
One thing I'm a little confused about though, or maybe just historically uneducated about, is the divergence from that lineage, if any, Catholicism took when it took on its Roman aspect.
Although I was of the opinion that Catholicism is handed down through Peter, oddly enough an Evangelical friend of mine brought it more forcefully to my attention.
What I'd like to know is more about the doctrine of infalliblilty. Is it a result of Christ's empowerment of Peter when he said 'whose sins you forgive will be forgiven, whose sins you hold bound will be held bound?'
I haven't done much research on this, but I thought maybe you might have some insight.
Agreed, except to say either you or I one is going to be in for a shock as well, as I'm post-trib. :-)
Yes I know there are a few unlearned folks who try to claim otherwise (like somehow baptists go back to John the B...), however they don't have history on their side. Of course there were various cults that grew up in medieval times---but until Luther, every one of them was brutally surpressed and destroyed.
Not a glowing endorsment of Rome's authenticity, eh? You might say Rome was the "Christian" equivalent of the Taliban.
Those Bohemian Waldensians sound like the "saints of God" to me!
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