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To: GoLightly
Edward I expelled the Jews from England, cuz they no longer had enough money to help support his military ambitions. Your hint was not necessary, cuz it's included in most things written about Edward I.

While hints may not be necessary for individuals versed in history, the typical American of 2004 does not know Agincourt from Antietam but does know that the Spanish Inquisition had to do with Spain persecuting Jews.

It is unfortunate that the complex history of Jewish tolerance and intolerance in Spain has been condensed in the American mind to a Mel Brooks song.

Jews lived in peace and tolerance in Roman Spain for centuries until the Visigothic invasians brought religious persecution not only to the Jews but also to the Catholic Church by the Visigoths who initially practiced Aryanism. After the Visogothic conversion to Catholicism, the Visigothic persecution of Catholics ended but the Visigothic persecution of Jews remained. It was no wonder that the Jews welcomed the Islamic invaders as liberators in 711 A.D.

Although the Islamic period of southern and central Spain is usually depicted as a model of Jewish toleration, that was only true in the initial wave of Islamic invasion. When the fanatical Almoravides invaded in 1086 and the even more fanatical Almohades invaded in 1146, religious toleration in Muslim Spain came to a screeching halt and thousands of Jews and Mozarabes (Christians living in Muslim territory)fled to the northern Spanish Christian Kingdoms where they were welcome.

By 1212, the Spanish Christian victory at Tolosa had broken the back of Muslim power. Cordoba fell in 1236, Valencia fell in 1238 and Seville fell in 1248. After all of Spain except the rump Muslim Kingdom of Granada had returned to Christian rule, Jews were held in high regard by the courts of both Fernando III (San Fernando) and his son Alfonso X (the Learned). There was hardly a noble house in Spain that had not intermarried with Jewish families.

Unfortunately, Jews became caught up in the three-way power struggle between the Crown, the nobles and the commoners during the reign of Peter the Cruel (1350-1369). As the aptly labeled Peter the Cruel could not trust his own people, he used only Muslim royal guards and Jewish tax collectors. Fairly or unfairly, this inflamed the resentment of the commoners against both Jews and Muslims who then not only associated Jews with the excesses and oppression of Peter the Cruel but also were jealous of Jewish prosperity and their close association with the Spanish nobility.

During the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella, the Spanish Crown used this popular resentment against Jews to consolidate Royal power at the expense of the nobilty. The commoners and the towns that had jelously guarded their "fueros" (rights) for centuries, gladly sided with the Crown. However, once the Jews were expelled and the power of the nobility broken, the Crown eventually turned it's attention to then consolidating Royal power over the towns themsleves.

It is undoubtedly true that Spain would have been much better off if the power struggle between the Crown, the nobility and the commoners had continued on more equal terms as was the case in British history and if the Jews had never been expelled.

However, the fact remains that, up until 1492, Jews had found more tolerance in Spain than in almost any other country in Europe. In England, the Jews were not allowed to return until the time of Cromwell.

Unfortunately, the average American knows only that Jews were persecuted during the Spanish Inquisition and knows nothing about the Jewish expulsion from England.

210 posted on 06/19/2004 9:07:41 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius

It's interesting --- kind of ironic that Israel is now seen in a similar way as Spain --- and only because they do what they must to survive.


214 posted on 06/19/2004 9:27:23 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Polybius
I'm familiar with English history of that time, but my knowledge of history on the continent has a lot of holes in it. It's one of those things I keep meaning to get to, but instead I find myself learning bits & pieces as issues get raised. Someone (you?) brought up the 30 year war & I confused it with the Kalmar war, even though they were very different wars.

I know Mel Brooks movies have their audience, but they seem to put me to sleep. Popular American knowledge passes me by, but a lot of the stuff I'm interested in causes people's eyes to glaze over if I try to talk about it.

Back to the issue at hand, kinda. I heard that the tradition of serving ham on Easter began during the Spanish Inquisition. Hanging hams by doorways & serving pork became a way of proving conversion to Christianity.

See, you deal in dates & big events, while I deal in minutia. lol

I kinda knew Charlemagne was in power around the earlier date you mentioned & I also knew he has been credited with upholding & spreading Western Christianity, so I wanted to find out what part, if any he played into it all. I find him making an alliance with an Islamic ruler against Christian Spain? Then again, he was German & he ruled France... :::snicker:::

Thank you for sharing your interesting knowledge.

BTW, I looked back at your list of victories for Roman Catholic Spain & somewhere in the back of my mind I find myself reaching for an Italian name... Catherine de' Medici & all of the intrigue that swirled around her & her family. Didn't assassinations & brokered deals have a lot to do with France finally settling down to be a Roman Catholic nation?

233 posted on 06/19/2004 1:31:51 PM PDT by GoLightly
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