Posted on 06/18/2004 9:55:45 AM PDT by xsysmgr
Hmm.. now why does this sound so familiar? Wealthy and powerful nation.... at war with those of another faith... winning militarily... so their enemy turns to propaganda about abuse in prisons...
exterminate
\Ex*ter"mi*nate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Exterminated; p. pr. & vb. n. Exterminating.] [L. exterminatus, p. p. of exterminare to abolish, destroy, drive out or away; ex out + terminus boundary, limit. See Term.] 1. To drive out or away; to expel.
They deposed, exterminated, and deprived him of communion. --Barrow.
(SD: exterminated and deprived of communion? That's pretty bad. We usually give communion to the dead.)
2. To destroy utterly; to cut off; to extirpate; to annihilate; to root out; as, to exterminate a colony, a tribe, or a nation; to exterminate error or vice.
To explode and exterminate rank atheism. --Bentley.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc
Of course, to the Havoc-inclined, you are suppoed to remain ignorant of the meaning of words and believe that this Papal pronouncement is calling for the killing of all heretics, when it is instead calling for them to be removed from territories. As a source of division and conflict, seperation seemed only fitting. That is a discussion which can continue.
But put aside any notions that this means the Pope was whipping out a big can of Raid in order to kill. heretics. dead.
SD
Don't know that there have to be, but things are pretty slow on the BBS and most are drifting in and out, sometimes dropping in with something they think might be interesting. FR is getting multiple threads on just about every topic.
Where "unauthorized" means "in the common tongue" in many instances. And Catholics were hardly the only ones burning bibles and bible printers, too.
There isn't any myopia going on here. The protestants, in their defense (which you won't see much of from me), at least don't go on every board on the internet and to every paper trying to downplay and lie through their teeth about what they did. In every debate on the subject, it becomes an issue of Catholic apologists finger pointing at protestants that "well they did it too". Which isn't the point. They'll admit it and show they learned from it. You guys still think it a swell idea by and large from viewing these threads, and haven't learnt anything from history at all - much less from scripture.
As far as what you claim was stolen from you, you'll have to take that up with proper authorities.. Assuming you can tell the truth on that issue any better than you have on this one as an organization - or on the matter of fraudulent writings, documents and books, fruadulent relics, etc.
Ever hear the story of the boy that called wolf?
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again. (Exit and exeunt)
I like Mel, but this is a Monty Python sketch.
Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!
It's not a synonym. Unauthorized means not authorized. The works in question contained flawed passages or in other ways were detrimental to the faith. To say they were forbidden just because they were in a common tongue is to do a disservice to the truth.
SD
Basically good. So if I violate Christ's directives while saying I'm "upholding the faith" it's my good intentions that should be weighed instead of the fact that the intentions led to murder? Is this what you intended to tell us?
Neither one of us is believing that.
SD
How good is your translation of the document? "Out" vs "in" would make a huge difference in action.
Regardless, I'm saddened to see a Vichy France standard used by a great religion.
"What gave the Catholic Church a rightful claim to ownership of the properties "stolen" by those who chose to remove themselves from the power of Rome?"
The Catholic Church had nothing more than MORAL AUTHORITY over the European monarchs. The Church was influential insofar as it lent legitimacy to the various secular regimes that were in existence. At that time, the radical protestant Kings or Queens demanded COMPLETE OBEISANCE from their "subjects", including the Catholic members within their realms. If the Catholics under their charge complained about royal abuses, as the English and German Catholics did when their monarchs were involved in Machiavellian courtly and political intrigues, they were MERCILESSLY SLAUGHTERED.
"Did they not have any claim to the property, as it had been their ancestors who had "donated" it?"
To enlarge the royal purses of the monarchs in protestant countries, the property that belonged to the CATHOLIC COMMUNITY (not just the "Church", as you say) was confiscated and STOLEN to enrich themselves.
The same thing is happening TODAY within the Anglican community. Those members of the Anglican Church who don't agree with heretical practices (gay marriage, female and gay bishops, etc.) who want to protest are forced to deal with the fact that THEIR PROPERTY is being held hostage by apostates in the Anglican hierarchy. It is ironic, indeed, to watch this happen to the very people who originally STOLE what they have from Catholics in the first place.
I would think it within the Church's power to clearify it's position if it felt it's intent was misunderstood.
"William Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language. Tyndale was a true scholar and a genius, so fluent in eight languages that it was said one would think any one of them to be his native tongue. He is frequently referred to as the “Architect of the English Language”, (even more so than William Shakespeare) as so many of the phrases Tyndale coined are still in our language today. Tyndale used Erasmus Greek NT to produce the first primary English translation of the New Testament. Forced to flee England, because of the wide-spread rumor that his English New Testament project was underway, causing inquisitors and bounty hunters to be constantly on Tyndale's trail to arrest him and prevent his project. God foiled their plans, and in 1525-1526 the Tyndale New Testament became the first printed edition of the scripture in the English language. Subsequent printings of the Tyndale New Testament in the 1530’s were often elaborately illustrated. Many copies were burned as soon as the Bishop could confiscate them, but many also trickled through to the people and one actually ended up in the bedroom of King Henry VIII. The more the King and Bishop resisted its distribution, the more fascinated the public at large became. The church declared it contained thousands of errors as they torched hundreds of New Testaments confiscated by the clergy, while in fact, they burned them because they could find no errors at all. One risked death by burning if caught in mere possession of Tyndale's forbidden books."
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