Posted on 06/17/2004 5:51:13 PM PDT by nuconvert
New Waziristan Offensive Starts
Pakistani security forces backed by helicopter gun ships have launched a fresh offensive in the South Waziristan region, officials say. Military and transport helicopters are reported to be accompanied by jet fighters west of the town of Wana.
Witnesses say that they heard the helicopters fire rockets at suspected militant hideouts.
An earlier offensive ended on Sunday after attacks using artillery, helicopter gun ships and jet fighters.
Since Sunday there have been at least two incidents of fighting - in one dozens of militants attacked a border security post.
The army has been trying to persuade rebellious sub-tribes protecting several hundred suspected foreign militants to hand them over for registration, so far unsuccessfully.
Instead, the tribesmen have been digging in, staging lightning strikes against the military.
They accuse the security forces of fighting against them on behalf of the Americans who are continuing to mount anti-Taleban operations across the rugged border in Afghanistan.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
Pong
So sad. The hopes of our nation to bring a mass murderer to justice are pinned on an incompitent and military and some tribal troglodytes who's allegiances are entirely dubious.
Angor Adda is about 2 km SE of Shkin, Afghanistan. By the time the Pak army subdues this last outpost, they will have encircled the entire Shawal Mountain Range, from the Sangarai border town west of Miram Shah, to Miram Shah, south through the Shakai Valley to Tiarza and west through Wana to Angor Adda.
The fourth side of the rectangle is covered by the Coalition forces on the Afghan side of the border.
Things don't look so good for the bad guys.
Hi-res, 3D satellite maps of the region at:
http://host1.in-motion.net/~jefft/tech/Mapping/afghanistan/index.html
All this activity over there... Maybe Musharraf realized what Kerry would mean to him...
Wow! 3-D. Kewl !
Kerry's pacifism and deceit scares me too.
I think Musharraf decided to put an end to the party in the border regions after the second assassination attempt.
Two things slowed him down.
One, the bad guys, the Chechens especially, fight pretty good and chewed up the Pak forces pretty good back in March.
Two, the Islamist's political forces put a lot of pressure on Musharraf over that offensive as well. The threat to place Karachi under martial law if there's any more significant terrorist attacks isn't idle chatter, and if that happens, civil war may not be far behind.
Notice that this time, Musharraf has his ducks all lined up. He just signed a record budget, with something like 30% extra funding for domestic infrastructure, he has allowed the tribal jirgas and the political efforts every chance to bring in the militants, much more chance than they deserved, and the talks with India over kashmir and nuclear detente are going very smoothly.
I don't want to comment on possible future operations, but I will say that the anvil best stand ready.
Yeah just remember who we're dealing with... The last time the Paki army confronted a terrorist stronghold it ended in their withdrawl. Saudis can't even encircle a city block, they let terrorists run away. I'm not going to put any hope on either of these so called Allies.
You want a job well done, gotta do it yourself...
It looks like a 3D rendering. Not a 3D glasses-viewble stereo pair.
Good maps anyway. Thanks!
Don't be such a drama queen. It's worth a shot using other peoples troops.
I do hope that when we do get OBL, that we don't bring him back to Afghanistan for a trial similar to Saddam in Iraq.
We're the ones who need to give him what he deserves.
"The last time the Paki army confronted a terrorist stronghold it ended in their withdrawl."
That's not true. The last offensive was at Sangarai and Nawe Kot on 6/16. The Paks took both villages. Prior to that the last offensive was on and before 6/14, primarily against the Shakai valley, Tiarza, and Inzar Narai, and the Pak army took all of those too.
The battle I think you refer to was during the week prior to 3/30 and involved the Shin Warsak and Kaloosha villages 15 km west of Wana.
Yes, there was some give and take over those areas, but if you'll notice, those areas are well to the rear of the current advances, and there aren't any flanking militants to worry about either.
I think, (personal opinion here), that some of the "withdrawal" we read about in the press was to take the political heat off of Musharraf, some was real, to allow the tribes to take their shot, and some was media ignorance, possibly aided by deliberate misdirection on the military's part.
In any event, "withdrawal" or not, the good guys hold those towns now, and many more besides.
I suspect the Iraqis will execute Saddam -- both because he deserves it, and (more importantly) to show the Iraqis who's boss. They'll kill him for the same reason the Romanians killed Ceaucescu back in '89: to make sure that a "return Saddam to power" party will have nothing to work with.
I suspect the Iraqis will execute Saddam -- both because he deserves it, and (more importantly) to show the Iraqis who's boss. They'll kill him for the same reason the Romanians killed Ceaucescu back in '89: to make sure that a "return Saddam to power" party will have nothing to work with.
Yes, most likely Saddam will be executed by his own countrymen. I agree with that.
" It looks like a 3D rendering. Not a 3D glasses-viewble stereo pair."
C'mere.
Lemme smack you.
Actually you are right and I was wrong. They were zoomable, spinable, pannable, and tiltable 3D models, but in that format they run about 12 megabytes, and very few have the GIS software necessary to view them that way.
Now they are JPEG compressions of TIFF two dimensional renderings.
If you want a different view and tell me what you'd like to see, I'll put it up. I have views of most of them from the 4 cardinal points of the compass, sans road and village overlays, anything else will take a day or two to generate.
I want the view that has the small cave by the side of the road with a big tall goofy guy standing there, wearing a Timex, and the American he happens to be talking to is...John Kerry! Zoom and print!!! Then, drop the mutha OABs.
Thanks for the map. I had no idea that Waziristan existed, let alone where.
I think I'll forget it now that I know.
Here's some more maps and background info courtesy of Boot Hill -
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1102298/posts
Boot Hill will be envious of your maps
• “Dozens of transport and gunship helicopters headed toward the mountains near Angor Adda, 60 km (38 miles) west of South Waziristan's main town of Wana...”
• “Pakistan's military ended a five-day crackdown on militants on Sunday in the Shakai area, 17 km (11 miles) west of Wana...”
IF WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE WANA CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT...
You can't understand what this battle is about, until you understand the tactics that are dictated by the rugged terrain and that requires a short tour of the battle area. Get your helmet, vest and sidearm and let's roll.
First off, ignore the mileage and directions quoted from the above article. Those city slicker reporters couldn't find their own butt with both hands.
The place name "Shakai", from the thread article is the small village of Shakki Khassadar Post (meaning Shakki Police Post, or simply Shakki, for short). It is located 18 km (11 mi) NNE, 026º from Wana, the principal town of the South Waziristan Tribal Agency. Shakki is not shown on any map because of its small size, but the location can be identified on the maps below.
The first map below shows Wana approximately in the center. Shakki is located along the road leaving Wana to the NNE, just before the first crook to the right in that road. Notice north-west of that point, the arc of mountains surrounding that area.
Wana can be found on the next map below approximately in the center (very small print). Shakki is located at the intersection of the two roads about 18 km NNE of Wana (see scale at the bottom of the map) and just below the town of Chalweshti. Notice the road leaving that intersection to the north-west, and how that road follows a river into the mountains seen in the first map. That is what is being referred to as "Shakki Valley".
SITREP:
On the map above, locate the tiny village of Shkin, on the Afghani border, due west of Shakki and 37 km (23 mi) NW (311º) from Wana. Just a mile or two East of that, over the border into Pakistan, (but not shown on the map) is the small sister village of Angor Adda (Angorada). Shkin has been a very hot LZ ever since 2001, with a strong U.S. presence. The reason Shkin is such a hot LZ is that the road from Shkin to Shakki (via Angorada and the Shakki Valley) is a major terrorist infiltration/exfiltration route. The Shakki valley would make an deal spot for the terrorists to control that route and to ambush and trap any Paki troops foolish enough to venture into it. Moreover, since Shakki is along the major north-south road route traversing South Waziristan, whoever controls Shakki, can effectively control the entire tribal area.
The way you capture such a dangerous road is simply: Start from both ends! The Pakis started working their way up the road from Shakki, into the "valley of death", a couple of weeks back, while other Paki troops began from the Angorada end, as reported in this story.
This battle appears to indicate a change in strategy for the Pakis, who have previously been placing the burden on the local tribes to clean up their own backyard (South waziristan). Now the Pakis appear to be saying to hell with tribal cooperation, we'll just plug off the infiltration routes to the border, QED.
The next map below gives a better topographic view of the terrain around Wana, Shakki and Shkin. Notice the Shakki Valley to the West of the intersection where Shakki is located. Although the road to Shkin is not shown, it should be clear from the terrain, just where it is and just why that road has "ambush" written all over it. Also notice an alternative route from Shkin to Wana, not shown on any of the above maps. This is another terrorist infiltration route that will be cut off by blockading the choke point at Angorada/Shkin.
The last map below is simply to orient you to where Shakki, Wana and South Waziristan fit into the bigger picture. Locate Zhob on the western border with Afghanistan. Now locate Zhob in the bottom-center of the first map on this post.
OK, take a break. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
--Boot Hill
Well I'll be darned, I stumbled on to jeffers website just this past week, while nosing around for anything new in the way of online maps! And now I come to this thread and find jeffers has become one of us!
Glad to have you around jeffers. I always look forward to learning new tricks, and I suspect you might have a few.
--Boot Hill
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