What is thermal depolymerization?

grist magazine ^ | 06.14.04 | Ask Umbra

[ckilmer]

Ask Umbra: Waste makes haste Grist Magazine - grist magazine

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Dear Umbra,

What is thermal depolymerization?

Ann Freehold, N.J.

Dearest Ann,

A polymer is a large group of linked molecules. We're made of polymers such as protein, eat polymers such as starch, and wear polymers such as leather and nylon. Thermal depolymerization is a heat-driven process that breaks down or transforms polymers into the shorter chains from whence they came: oil. Our planet's automatic transformation of dead dinosaurs and dead cavepeople and other organic matter into petroleum is thermal depolymerization -- the slow conversion of our ancestors into Dodge Caravan fuel.

People who understand science better than you and I are investigating the possibility of artificially speeding up the thermal depolymerization process to take advantage of our waste products and add to the oil supply. One company, Changing World Technologies, is currently refining the process of refining giant food conglomerate ConAgra's turkey offal into refined oil in a Missouri plant. Changing World churns up turkey leftovers, subjects them to high heat, and decants crude oil in far less time than Mother Earth takes to accomplish the same trick. Or at least that's the idea; all this is still under development. Other parties have experimented with swine waste, but in any case, you get the picture; the hope is to transform waste into oil.

To get to what I suspect is the heart of your rather succinct question: Alternative-fuel folks are keeping close tabs on the evolution of this process, which may someday provide one solution to our many waste and fuel problems. Or maybe not. Past attempts to speed up this side of nature have proven too energy intensive to be practical. The folks at CWT and other scientists working with swine waste think they've found a better technique that leverages water, heat, and pressure in an economical and efficient combination. Interested observers, including yourself, are eagerly waiting to see if their successes can be reproduced on a larger scale.

Monomerly, Umbra

(c) 2004, grist magazine

URL: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=17109

[Rockpile]

I stopped in at the Carthage plant last fall hoping to get a tour but they were still trying to get the guts of the process working properly. Looks like they are up and running now.

[jnarcus]

I only worry about the waist when I eat too much chocolate ice cream...Nuclear waste on the other hand can be handled by many newer methods

[AmericanVictory]

Let us tout any boondoggle and waste subsidies upon it. Anything rather than actually do something. Such leadership for over 30 years not in Washington. Reagan's truest words: "Washington doesn't solve problems, it subsidizes them." Just take a look at ADM and their patrons such as Senator Bond.

[Dark Knight]

You are very right, and if this process was just for turkey guts, it would be on target.

It can be used (so they say) for any organic material. Used baby diapers, computer boards, sewage, yard waste, tires, plastics, or anything.

Because of the process temperatures, bacterial or viral contamination is nonexistant (the temperature breaks down all organic material). Sewage into oil. Old tires into oil. Medical waste into oil. Paper into oil. Etcetera, etcetera and of course etcetera.

The belief of the creators of the technology is a barrel production cost of possibly $7 at full scale production. If the Saudis want to have gas at $0.10 per gallon, cool. And if they put it up over $0.35 we can renegotiate by putting more sewers online...

Competition, it is the best way.

DK

[null and void]

bump

[kevkrom]

Saudi's cost of extracting a barrel of oil is in the 25¢ range. If this starts to really work the price of petroleum will drop to just below the break even point for "Thermoleum", until the Thermoleum producers are bankrupt, and the facilities are broken up for scrap metal.

But what's the total cost by the time it reaches the US? (Add in shipping costs, etc.)

These plants also serve a dual-purpose. They are producing energy stocks (and refined mineals) from waste products, but just as importantly, they are eliminating waste products that would otherwise be clogging up landfills. They still serve a reasonable economic purpose beyond oil production.

[from occupied ga]

which may someday provide one solution to our many waste and fuel problems. Or maybe not.

The belief of the creators of the technology is a barrel production cost of possibly $7 at full scale production.

It will never happen - this is just a scam to extract money from the credulous.

[null and void]

just as importantly, they are eliminating waste products that would otherwise be clogging up landfills. They still serve a reasonable economic purpose beyond oil production.

And THAT, sir, is how it should be sold!

[null and void]

Neither will heavier than air flight. Best to abandon any hope of it now before we invest too much time and effort.

[r9etb]

Note, however, that making oil from animal waste and such is merely a form of energy recovery (i.e., recovering some of the energy required to raise and handle the livestock), and not a source of new energy.

It's a good thing, but it's important to recognize that this is basically a way to increase the efficiency of fuel consumption.

Energy production -- on some scale -- could probably use vast fields of plants to collect sunlight. However, I'm not sure that the energy balance would be economically attractive.

[from occupied ga]

Neither will heavier than air flight.

You think this half witted comment is some sort of argument in favor of the oil from garbage myth?

[Malsua]

>>either will heavier than air flight. Best to abandon any hope of it now before we invest too much time and effort.<<

Reminds me of some gems...

"I think there is a world market for maybe Five Computers." -- Thomas W. Watson, Chairman IBM, 1943

"There is no reason for any indivudual to have a computer in their home." (Ken Olsen, President, Chairmen and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977)

"The Telephone has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." Western Union Internal Memo, , 1876

"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value. " (Marshall Ferdinand Foch, French Commander of Allied forces during the closing months of World War I, 1918)

[ckilmer]

Neither will heavier than air flight.

You think this half witted comment is some sort of argument in favor of the oil from garbage myth?
////////////////
you dismissed the technology out of hand. the previous writer's point was that much much stranger things have been invented--and are currently being invented.

like water desalination technologies-- biomass technologies have have been around for a couple of decades. they have just been clunky and expensive. "changing world technologies" just worked the kinks out of the system. (same is happening in water desalination.)

[null and void]

Yes I do.

[eyespysomething]

Oh, that's a famous YuGiOh move: you take a Polymerization Card and fuse Blue Eyes White Dragon with Red Eyes Black Dragon, and next thing you know you're kicking a$$ and taking names.

[from occupied ga]

you dismissed the technology out of hand

Not really - this sort of "garbage" has been around in many guises for years and comes under the heading of "something for nothing" or "perpetual motion machine" It's just like the ethanol for motor fuel myth. It uses more energy than you get out of it. I get tired of the fervent, but credulous, believers tooting the the horn

And, BTW, stating a non-sequitor is not an argument. It's not even clever.

[kevkrom]

Note, however, that making oil from animal waste and such is merely a form of energy recovery (i.e., recovering some of the energy required to raise and handle the livestock), and not a source of new energy. It's a good thing, but it's important to recognize that this is basically a way to increase the efficiency of fuel consumption.

Yes and no -- some of that energy being recovered is coming from processes we haven't been able to efficiently tap for energy purposes before, such as photosynthesis (from the vegetable products going into raising the livestock). In a sense, this is managing to capture some solar energy that otherwise would not have been conserved...

[kevkrom]

Not really - this sort of "garbage" has been around in many guises for years and comes under the heading of "something for nothing" or "perpetual motion machine" It's just like the ethanol for motor fuel myth. It uses more energy than you get out of it.

It's not "something for nothing" -- the process is only 85-90% efficient in terms of total energy input into the system. But since over 95% of the energy that goes into the system is that which stored inside the waste products, 30 times more usable energy is output than is input, if you exclude the waste products from the input energy.

All this process does is convert energy from a stored/potential form into a usable form. The waste products irrevocably destroyed/converted plus some inefficiency (likely mostly heat loss) accounts for the less than 100% efficiency, which prevents this from being a "perpetual motion machine" type of concept.

[BSunday]

I have no idea, but if they put it on Discovery or History Channel, odds are I would watch it.

[Fiddlstix]

BTTT