Posted on 06/15/2004 2:12:56 PM PDT by Fifthmark
Fifthmark doesn't sound much different than the Pharisees in the Sanhedrin who advocated the death of Christ for blasphemy and heresy.
The prayer I then addressed to God contains the reasons for the petition for forgiveness, which is valid both for the dramas linked to the Inquisition as well as for the wounds they have caused in the memory:
"Lord, God of all men, in some periods of history Christians have yielded to methods of intolerance and have not followed the great commandment of love, thus disfiguring the countenance of the Church, your Bride. Have mercy on your sinful children and accept our determination to seek and promote truth in the gentleness of charity, conscious that the truth only imposes itself with the force of truth itself. Through Christ our Lord."
JOANNES PAULUS II
Vatican, June 15, 2004
Nice to see you too. Perhaps you can actually post insults to me next time, and not just your backslapping buddies.
I see he's a defender of Saddam Hussein's regime...
I defended his treatment of Christians in the region, not the regime. Can I disagree with the idea of "bombing Iraq into democracy" and still be a good American?
He could probably be baited into defending the Holocaust pretty easily too...
You should be thankful that my Christian demeanor doesn't allow me to properly retort for that utterly depraved assumption.
The bigger danger is the more mainstream push to enshrine various religious doctrines in law.
Oh no! Recognize God in the public sphere? What a horrible insult to your secularism! As St. Augustine said, there is a City of God and a City of Man, and one naturally excludes the other. I wish to build the City of God; you wish to build the City of Man. It's as simple as that.
If socialism completely overtakes our nation, and stamps out freedom, as it appears to be doing incrementally, we'll have the "reasonable" religious crowd to thank for it -- not the nutcases like Fifthmark.
Malarky. Of all the forces opposing socialism, the greatest is the Catholic Church, and this is borne out by her consistent teaching against it, most forcefully seen in the encyclicals of the Roman Pontiffs. For instance, Pope Leo XIII writes in "Quod Apostolici Muneris":
"But it is to be lamented that those to whom has been committed the guardianship of the public weal, deceived by the wiles of wicked men and terrified by their threats, have looked upon the Church with a suspicious and even hostile eye, not perceiving that the attempts of the sects would be vain if the doctrine of the Catholic Church and the authority of the Roman Pontiffs had always survived, with the honor that belongs to them, among princes and peoples. For, 'the church of the living God, which is the pillar and ground of truth,' hands down those doctrines and precepts whose special object is the safety and peace of society and the uprooting of the evil growth of socialism."
The rest can be found here:
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13apost.htm
I'm actually quite religious myself, but in an intellectual, non-doctrinaire way.
I fancy your "intellectual, non-doctrinal" religion is nothing more than a subtle form of liberalism, which concedes that all religions are more or less praiseworthy.
Imagine what would have happened if the Comfy Chair had been used at Abu Ghraib!
While we're speaking in hyperboles, how about I say:
"poink is one of the, if not the, most ignorant anti-Catholics I have met in a long time who didn't bother to read the article I posted before launching into his long-held views which read like a page out of Loraine Boettner's 'Catholicism.'"
It's been called the "Bible of Anti-Catholicism," so you should be right at home.
Unfortunately, there have been lots of people, with lots of beliefs, throughout history, that are like that.
Then, if I want to be "damned to hell", I have the right .. at least here in the United States .. to go to hell in my own way. If Catholicism cannot "compete" for my soul in the Marketplace of Ideas, you and your brethren in the church have no right to either try to force me to adopt your beliefs or to kill me if I don't have those beliefs.
Additionally, if I can convince others, in the fair Marketplace of Ideas, that my beliefs are superior/more rational (or for whatever rationale) to yours, then I have the right to attempt to prosyletize them.
You, sir or madam, are no different than those out there killing unbelievers because they won't kneel to Allah. Fanatics of all stripes should be ridiculed and then ignored.
I have widely varying assessments of the praiseworthiness of different religions (and I also note that some of the more praiseworthy ones are also some of the more patently untrue, in terms of specific beliefs). However, I have only one assessment of political systems that allow members of one religion to forcibly impose their beliefs on others -- they suck, and lead to a lot of violence and misery, as well as stamping out individuals' honest search for greater truths.
It's never a good idea to be TOO sure of your religious beliefs. Those terrorists who took down the WTC were just as sure that their religion is the absolute ultimate truth, as you are sure that yours is. Oddly, your Pope is a lot more flexible than you are, about seeing truth and value in religions other than the Roman Catholic Church. Maybe you should spend some time seriously contemplating his teachings on the subject.
The Inquisition has to be seen as a product of its time, when Christian Europe was engaged in wars against non-Christians who were quite formidable. Nobody has to excuse the Inquisition; why should they?
But , ya' gotta realize the ends justifies the means.
This should have been taken as a strong HINT this was sarcasm.
do you call yourself a christen? is mass murder and torture alright if it is done in the name of God against non-believers?
It's Christian with a capital C. NO murder is NOT alright in the name of God, neither is torture. It is against the Word of God. I was trying to make point about any defense of this historical nightmare. Sorry if you misunderstood.
What truth has the Pope seen in non-Catholic religions?
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You watch too much TV
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