Exporting America

CNN, Lou Dobbs Transcripts ^ | 06/10/2004 | Lou Dobbs

[neutrino]

The Department of Homeland Security recently awarded what could be a $10 billion border security contract to Bermuda-abased Accenture. My guest tonight says it is outrageous and wrong to reward a company for abandoning our country.

Congresswoman Rosa DeLaura has authored legislation that would prevent government contracts from being awarded to foreign companies. In her statement, she said, "The United States should not be doing business with those who want all the benefits of citizenship without any of the responsibilities."

[m18436572]

No. That ain't commie. That's anti-commie. Don't worry though. In a while you'll probably be called an anti-semite or a nazi as well. They're all related you know! </s> He wants no country. He just wants to make a quick buck. A quick American buck at that. Absolutely nothing wrong with looking out for your own. A famous tradition, in fact. And healthy too. These sellout charlatans lack family nurturing and most likely have no children of their own and therefore lack any ability for foresight. (Not a qwak psychologist, but I thought I'dd give it a shot!)

[Havoc]

Appears nobody's got brass enough to stand up for it if they have to live with the effects and consider them ethically. Suppose that's why many of these guys circumsize their ethics in favor of their love for money..

[Gunslingr3]

Gee, XBob, were you hoping to duck out for a day and that I'd forget you don't know your history and you're a communist at heart who wants Washington to organize and manage our trade?

I'll ask again, "why not let them put up trade barriers to "nurture" local industries where and when politicians see fit?"

you are seriously stupid: 107 - "1. Because that is the way our forefathers designed our country, with no internal trade barriers. They are strictly prohibited. "

I'm asking you WHY, you're just saying "that's the way they did it." That isn't an answer to WHY. WHY would they create a free trade zone with within America? Both the Articles of Confederation and Constitution prevent the institution of trade barriers between the States. Why? Saying, "because they did" isn't answer to why they did it.

Quit ducking and obfuscating, commie. Try answering an actual question, this time without trying to make up history.

[Gunslingr3]

I say, "I don't have a problem with buying American military hardware from U.S. suppliers. Makes the most sense."

XBob comprehends "GUNSLINGER WANTS TO USE CHINESE GUNS, and wants us to do so to."

Ergo, it's obvious XBob can't read. Public schools, XBob? I'll let people with greater reading comprehension decide for themselves.

[XBob]

161 - "No. That ain't commie. That's anti-commie. Don't worry though. In a while you'll probably be called an anti-semite or a nazi as well."

LOL - anti-patriots like gunslingr have called me every name in the book, plus some not in it, for standing up for America and Americans and rights of Americans when that intereferes with their right to rape, pillage, steal, burgler, our money, our country, and our possessions, and our way of life.

They are the biggest and most immoral anti-Americans around, and are like a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy.

I am of the opinion, if we don't act as our own vigilantes, and string up the gunslingers of the world, we will have no country or way of life or family, left to protect.

Hang-em High!!!

[XBob]

162 - "Appears nobody's got brass enough to stand up for it if they have to live with the effects and consider them ethically. Suppose that's why many of these guys circumsize their ethics in favor of their love for money.."

Free-traitors have no ethics. They are morally depraved.

[XBob]

163 - "I'm asking you WHY, you're just saying "that's the way they did it." That isn't an answer to WHY"

Are you really that stoooooooooooopid?

I have told you repeatedly, and the history books tell us,
THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION DIDN'T WORK !!!!!!! THEY ALLOWED THAT !!!!!!

SO THEY WERE DISCARDED AND A NEW SYSTEM, THE CONSTITUTION, CREATING A FEDERATED REPUBLIC, RATHER THAN A LOOSE CONFEDERATION.

DUMB DUMB DUMB - QUIT WASTING MY TIME!!!

[XBob]

164 - "I say, "I don't have a problem with buying American military hardware from U.S. suppliers. Makes the most sense."
XBob comprehends "GUNSLINGER WANTS TO USE CHINESE GUNS, and wants us to do so to."

yOU HAVE SPENT THIS WHOLE THREAD SAYING WE SHOULD BY FROMT HE CHEAPEST SOURCE. CHINESE GUNS ARE CHEAPER THAN AMERICAN GUS. THEREFORE, BUYING AMERICAN GUNS, IS RESTRICTING TRADE, AND YOU HAVE SPENT THE WHOLE THREAD AGAINST RESTRICTING TRADE.

[Gunslingr3]

I have told you repeatedly, and the history books tell us, THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION DIDN'T WORK !!!!!!! THEY ALLOWED THAT !!!!!!

Are you still suggesting the Articles of Confederation were dropped because they insisted on free trade between the States? If so, why replace them with the Constitution which also insists on free trade between the States?

[Gunslingr3]

"I say, "I don't have a problem with buying American military hardware from U.S. suppliers. Makes the most sense." XBob comprehends "GUNSLINGER WANTS TO USE CHINESE GUNS, and wants us to do so to."

yOU HAVE SPENT THIS WHOLE THREAD SAYING WE SHOULD BY FROMT HE CHEAPEST SOURCE.

I've said that the U.S. Congress should not impose taxes upon our domestic producers that export goods and services because this creates a disincentive for them to be located in the U.S. Furthermore, the U.S. should not erect trade barriers that reduce the living standards of it's citizens. That is a seperate issue from where and how the U.S. military should procure firearms.

CHINESE GUNS ARE CHEAPER THAN AMERICAN GUS. THEREFORE, BUYING AMERICAN GUNS, IS RESTRICTING TRADE, AND YOU HAVE SPENT THE WHOLE THREAD AGAINST RESTRICTING TRADE.

If the U.S. government told me, individual citizen, that I couldn't buy a Chinese made gun, that is a restriction on trade. The U.S. military deciding to where to purchase it's firearms is a different issue.

Currently there is ONLY ONE AMERICAN bullet manufacturer left for our military ammo.

Incorrect again, XBob. Alliant Techsystems is churning out 1.2 billion bullets a year at the Army-owned plant it runs in Independence, Mo. The Army has given contracts for 70 million rounds each to Israel Military Industries Ltd. and the Winchester unit of Olin Corp., according to Lt. Col. Matthew Butler, who buys bullets for all branches of the armed forces through the Army. Olin Corp. is a U.S. company that the military is buying from because it's own company doesn't produce enough for wartime. The purchase from Israel Military Industries Ltd. is a political choice, but not one of necessity, just one of cost. Alliant is looking into adding military production to a plant in Minnesota that currently makes hunting ammunition. Whether expanding those facilities makes sense in the time frame of the Iraq war has to be weighed against how else to spend the finite military budget (armored humvees, body armor, etc). Purchases for 2 billion bullets are being lined up with other companies. You can fault the Army and the Congress perhaps for the manufacturing capacity of the Army's own facility, but China has nothing to do with that, and isn't were our procuring agents have gone for additional ammo. But hell, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant...

[XBob]

169 - DUH - you are obviously incompetent to understand this.

[XBob]

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/footnotes/2004/05/us_asks_private.html

May 27, 2004
US asks private sector to ease bullet shortage
Even in the age of unmanned aerial vehicles, satellite-guided bombs and night-vision goggles, the US army cannot fight a war without its most basic necessity: bullets.

And with more troops in Iraq, more intense combat than expected and the need for almost every soldier from frontline infantryman to rearguard logistician to be prepared for an ambush, the army suddenly finds itself in a bullet crunch.

According to a requisition last week by the Army Field Support Command, the service will need 300m to 500m more bullets a year for at least five years, or more than 1.5m a year for combat and training. And because the single army-owned, small-calibre ammunition factory in Lake City, Missouri, can produce only 1.2m bullets annually, the army is suddenly scrambling to get private defence contractors to help fill the gap.

The bullet problem has its roots in a Pentagon effort to restock its depleted war materiel reserve. But it has been exacerbated by the ongoing operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, where rearguard and supply units have been thinly-stretched throughout the countryside, occasionally without active duty combat soldiers to protect them....

[Gunslingr3]

you are obviously incompetent to understand this.

You keep dodging. Let me distill it down to a simple yes or no question.

Do you think the Articles of Confederation allowed states to erect trade barriers between one another.

[Gunslingr3]

According to a requisition last week by the Army Field Support Command, the service will need 300m to 500m more bullets a year for at least five years, or more than 1.5m a year for combat and training. And because the single army-owned, small-calibre ammunition factory in Lake City, Missouri, can produce only 1.2m bullets annually, the army is suddenly scrambling to get private defence contractors to help fill the gap.

XBob, this is exactly what I told you. The single plant that makes 5.56mm that is owned by the military is insufficient for wartime (not the only 5.56mm manufacturer, in the U.S. or otherwise). They are currently contracting with private sources, and I provided you two, one in the U.S., one that is not. This is a cost issue. If they wanted to have all the bullets from U.S. suppliers they could. This has nothing to do with trade to China. Trade with China isn't why the Army owned only one factory making 5.56mm ammunition. That was the case because we hadn't been in any conflict over a month long for three decades. There are plenty of ammunition manufacturers in the U.S., and if the Army wants to build more facilities (of it's own), or buy from those U.S. (or even allied, such as Israel) producers, they can. This is like earlier when you through up a series of unrelated statistics. You're obfuscating.

[neutrino]

and if the Army wants to build more facilities (of it's own), or buy from those U.S. (or even allied, such as Israel) producers, they can.

You are making two implicit assumptions. Those are:
1) That we will have time to build such facilities
2) That the supply lines will remain secure if we must import the material from elsewhere.

What if the next conflict is a come as you are party? What if we don't have the luxury of a year or more to build these factories?

We are cutting our own throat, all to keep the free traitors happy. Those free traitors may cause the fall of this great nation, as the term for them implies.

[XBob]

173 - As it is obvious the free-traitor can't understand English, about the Articles of Confederation, I will address you:

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_arti.html

The Articles created a Confederation, called the United States of America. In a confederation, the individual political units, States in this case, maintain their sovereignty (in other words, each is its own nation), but they join together in a coordinated way to deal with certain issues, such as security. This independence of each political unit is seen as both the main advantage and main disadvantage of a confederation. To put it into perspective, many confederations have been tried throughout world history, but none survive today.

The United States also had no power to regulate commerce between and among the states, leading to bitter tariff wars between them. This type of in-fighting did not help alleviate the economic depression that set in after the war ended.

[XBob]

175 - free-traitors can't understand even the simplest concepts like this.

We are wasting our time, except to demonstrate their avarice and stupidity.

[Gunslingr3]

You are making two implicit assumptions. Those are: 1) That we will have time to build such facilities 2) That the supply lines will remain secure if we must import the material from elsewhere. What if the next conflict is a come as you are party? What if we don't have the luxury of a year or more to build these factories?

Are you trying to assert that the lack of adequate spending by the U.S. Congress over the last decade on ammunition has anything to do with trade? By all means, make the case, this should be interesting.

[neutrino]

We are wasting our time, except to demonstrate their avarice and stupidity.

True. I have changed my tagline accordingly: Against stupidity the very Gods themselves contend in vain.

[neutrino]

By all means, make the case, this should be interesting.

I've got a better idea. Remember our discussion. Remember your position. In the fullness of time, you will see the consequences of free traitin'. So will everyone else. And those of us who fought it will be fully vindicated.