Posted on 06/10/2004 11:58:29 AM PDT by JOAT
"Fine, you don't have a problem with EVERY CAR BEING TRACKED ALL THE TIME. "
Not really, because there isn't enough computer power on the planet to track every car all the time, nor enough manpower on the planet to monitor it.
Quite frankly, nobody really cares where you drive, or when. Why would they want to know where you're going? They don't care where I drive, either.
Now, if you're breaking the law, then you might just break through the data stream and get noticed. But...you don't break the law, do you?
Keep in mind...there is no way to monitor every car all the time. Only the exceptional car will get noticed. By exceptional I mean the stolen car, the speeding car, the car that's ignoring traffic laws. Who cares about the cars that are just moving around? Nobody.
"The local PBA and ACLU got involved when the local town wanted to put GPS trackers in the local cruisers to always know where the cops were. The cops were afraid of management finding out where they actually were all shift. It eventually got shot down."
I'm sure it did. Those cops don't want anyone to know where they're cooping, I'm sure. Now, I'm really in favor of cop cars having these devices on them, along with the constantly running video cameras covering every interaction with the public. There's a great idea, and one I support 100%.
i love my SKS, got the russian version but purchased a nice chinese cherry stock (i have short arms) great accuracy IMHO, ammo used to be cheap but now its skyrocketed due to the assault weapon crackdown.
"The fact that people sit there and take this is staggering--how long before we're subjected to the same"
I can see it now. Your tag will "broadcast: to police recievers in patrol cars if your registratrion or inspection have expired. They won't wont even have to notice anymore, you'll just tell them that from 3 lanes away as you pass them on the side of the road.
"Your tag will "broadcast: to police recievers in patrol cars if your registratrion or inspection have expired. "
So, it's OK not to pay your registration fees and to skip required inspections? Is that what you're saying? I always find that it's pretty easy to cut a check for my annual registration and to get my car checked ever other year.
Or is it that you object to registrations and inspections in the first place?
Its not an objection to paying fees, its the fact that they would seek you out specifically. Its high tech revenue collecting. Just like red light cameras.
"Its not an objection to paying fees, its the fact that they would seek you out specifically. Its high tech revenue collecting. Just like red light cameras."
But what would they collect from you if you had paid your registration fees on time? Nothing. However, they'd be collecting from the scofflaws...those folks who think they're above the law and don't need to pay those fees.
The heck with those folks. I pay my fees when they're due. Those who don't can pay a fine. It's of no importance to me, and I'll just drive on without being bothered, just as I do now.
First you say:
Part of any such scheme would be a method to detect vehicles that did not identify themselves. Again, a missing RFID plate would dispatch an officer.
This would neccesitate monitoring every car moving, all the time to work. Otherwise Mr. Officer can't magically appear when a vehicle is moving about without an RFID. But then you say:
there isn't enough computer power on the planet to track every car all the time, nor enough manpower on the planet to monitor it.
This is actually a more realistic statement but negates your original positive scenario of benevolent big bro being able to save your stolen Corvette after the thieves remove or jam the RFID.
So let's get down to reality here. Since Big Bro cannot, by your own deductive analysis, monitor every vehicle all of the time, what would this system really do?
Monitor specific people all of the time obviously.
But so long as you don't attract the 'masters' attention you'll escape a beating. Since you have stated you ALWAYS obey all the traffic rules you should escape their watchful gaze. But if you go to protests (as if a compliant fellow like you would!) they would know you attended. If you join certain clubs that a Liberal administration loathed your data points would start appearing all over computer monitored charts. Get enough cross-linking and suddenly you're a person of interest and get passed over to a real life analyst.
But not to worry, you obey all the laws right? Of course not. There are enough 'laws' already on the books that every person in this country has broken some even if inadvertently. Ignorance of the law is no defense, Bucky.
Get Hitlery Klinton in as El Presidente in 2008 and she's get her version of Janet Reno doing that rectal exam on ya' MineralSubject, even though you've been a real good boy.
Sucks don't it? But take comfort knowing only whackos with something to hide would oppose persistent monitoring.
"This would neccesitate monitoring every car moving, all the time to work. Otherwise Mr. Officer can't magically appear when a vehicle is moving about without an RFID. But then you say:"
Your statements belie your understanding of the nature of our form of government. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to believe that if a law is passed it must be complied with, because it came from lawmakers.
This stands in stark contrast with men like Thomas Jefferson or George Washington who recognized that simply because a group of 'authorities' pass a law, doesn't compel one to obey it without question. King George was certainly the authority over the colonies yet enough people in that day felt a line had been crossed. They were told to 'disperse' by the police of their day when their firearms were to be confiscated but didn't. Because they chose not to comply we've had two centuries of relative freedom and prosperity.
The inevitable nature of any government is to continuously acquire more power. (Continuous monitoring of citizens is acquiring more power.) All Governments move toward totalitarianism over time. Our founders recognized this and gave us the means to shove any government back down that imagined itself as our masters rather than our servants.
MineralMan, do you think the government is more like your master or your servant in 2004?
People like you never see the problem with government getting more powerful because you think that careful observance of the law will save you. The problem with that notion is that the corrupting nature of power eventually makes the state unpleasant to deal with. True, we are not there yet, but Police States don't suddenly appear.
An unhealthy desire to track the movements of ordinary, presumably law-abiding citizens does not sound like the behavior of a government that is my servant. That sounds like a government that thinks it is my master.
"Of course you don't see a Police State on the horizon. That's because your idea of a 'protest' is complying timidly when the people in power tell you to stop. That is not 'protesting,' that's voicing an opinion then tucking tail when it's opposed. Protesting by definition requires standing for a principle even in the face of...gasp...ARREST."
I won't belabor this further beyond this post. I have the right to "peaceably assemble" and to petition my government. I exercize that right frequently.
When the cops come and order folks to disperse, I do so. Once the assembly ceases being peaceful, I no longer participate in it.
I know that I have been effective. I have seen the results of my participation in these "peaceable assemblies." You have no idea who I am or what I do or do not do.
You referred to me in an earlier post as "MineralSlave." That's an indication of how little you do know about me.
We have opportunities constantly to affect how government works. We have elections frequently. We have the ability to address government at all levels. On the local level, we may address any official meeting of government. You'll find me at these meetings, and what I say makes a difference.
No, I am not a slave of the government. I will never be. As long as I can stand up and address my government without fear, then I am not a slave.
I'm also not so conceited as to believe that I will always prevail. I'm one of a very large group. Sometimes the group agrees with me; sometimes it does not.
I support our system of government, as described in the Constitution of the United States. I have served in its military. I take every opportunity to exercize my rights to influence this representative republic.
I will not abide those who break the law in an attempt to subvert that Constitution. Exercize your freedom, but remember that you are not the only one in the country. Others may well disagree with you. If you can convince them, then you can turn the government in your direction. If not, then you can keep trying.
You may not, however, decide alone how the system works.
Do I run red lights?
"No"
Why am I opposed to the cameras?
"If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand".
Everything I need, or am willing, to say, I say in the threads. I will not reveal my identity on Free Republic, due to a certain element here, for the protection of myself and my family. I do not respond to FreepMail. If you want to discuss something with me, do it in public, please. I'm 58 years old, a resident of California, and a veteran of the USAF during the late 60s. I'm a web merchant, full-time. I speak Russian, Spanish, and French. My politics are eclectic. However, I expect every person to treat every other person with a certain degree of courtesy and respect, unless that person behaves in a dangerous, threatening, or discourteous manner. I am a gun owner, and an avid fisherman. You will also notice in my usual tagline that I am an atheist. I don't care what others believe, as long as they do not attempt to convert me. Such attempts are useless, annoying, and presumptuous. Believe as you will, and leave me to disbelieve as I will. A Note About Atheism Atheism is not a religion. It does not involve belief in any particular ideas or concepts. It is merely a disbelief in any sort of deity or other supernatural entities. For the atheist, such things simply are not believable. Atheism, in itself, is nothing more than that. There are no churches of atheism. There is no central doctrine of atheism. There are no principles of atheism. It is, simply, a disbelief in deities and other supernatural entities. Atheists, as a group, do not worship nature, themselves, evolution, or anything else. They simply disbelieve in deities and other supernatural entities. Atheists have no gods, but most don't mind if you do. Those who do mind if you worship a deity are simply wrong to do so. Atheists are libertarians, conservatives, liberals, communists, peaceful people and terrorists. They are, in short, just like everyone else. Please do not use the word "atheism" as a synonym for anything. Any time you do so, you are incorrect. Atheism is simply the description of not believing in deities and other superanatural entities. It has nothing to do with anything else on the planet.
Probably 75% of what the Federal Government now sees as its responsibility is unconsitutional so I'm sure you must be quite frustrated.
I will not abide those who break the law in an attempt to subvert that Constitution.
I can give a hundred examples where government subverts the Constitution every day. Perhaps you could provide some examples of where you personally have not "abided" someone in Government from subverting the Consitution.
Anyone with an open mind can quickly recognize the incongruence between the intent of the Consitution and what the Federal Government has become.
I met a guy like you once; he was ex-millitary; CID I think. Overall he was a great guy, but I remember him cheering when Waco went down. He didn't get it. In his mind the Branch Davidians deserved what they got because they resisted Government authority.
Huh?!
Where are your PAPERS?! The RFID is just another form of ID, and if you don't think authoritarians LOVE the idea of being able to track every vehicle, wherever it goes, then you're not doing much critical thinking.
The only reason we haven't seen police states using RFIDs is because it's a NEW TECHNOLOGY.
The government has no business knowing where and when, and how fast, and with how many stops, I travel.
If you don't think such a system would be quickly jumped on by surveillance-loving LEOs, you're kidding yourself.
The first time a police department 'asks' for a 'vehicle history' for some court case or another, we'll be right there.
If someone proposes this idea in America, they need to be tried for sedition and sent to China if found guilty.
I agree 100%. It's all about mindset and having the mental fortutide to simply say "no".
Yes there is. On my POS computer that is 4 years old, I just stored a fictional "data matrix" consisting of 100000 rows (which could represent license plates), and 100 columns (which could be represent latitude and longitude). It's real easy to store even more data, when you factor in compression schemes which would reduce the matrix sizes by over 90%.
Why would they want to know where you're going?
Big brother intimidation tactics. If people know the gov't is watching, they will be even more afraid to speak up than they are now. Also, there are so many edicts, that it would be easy to catch of any us breaking the edicts. So law enforcement would then be on a selective basis (i.e., we didn't like that last letter you wrote to the mayor, attached are 12 speeding tickets from yesterday).
But...you don't break the law, do you?
Who knows? Do you know all of the edicts by heart?
Who cares about the cars that are just moving around? Nobody
It's also about revenue. They will eventually send you a bill for speeding, that is some sort of multiplication of the minutes you sped and the amount over the limit.
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