We both had a common point of agreement that the Island Prison of atheistic communist Cuba is no place for a little boy to have to grow up.
Few would disagree with this, I suppose, but notice how adherence to this belief tends to skew opinions on other issues (below).
Elian's mother died trying to bring her son to Miami to his uncles and to freedom, when the raft she was floating on fell apart.
In other words, Elian's mother and the group she was with were attempting to enter the country illegally. Were they Mexicans who died of thirst in the middle of the desert or suffocated in the back of a truck, I suspect many Freepers would not describe their plight in such terms ("trying to attain freedom") and would be considerably less sympathetic.
In the Island Prison, she was raising Elian without the help of the boy's father who never married her and had little involvement in the boy life.
In other words, she was a single mother. In other threads on this forum I've seen women in this situation described as "sluts" and "whores."
No written will could have stated any more clearly whom she intended to have custody of the boy in the event of her demise. She and the father had been in contact with the uncle's in Miami planning the escape to freedom.
If the father had so little involvement in the boy's life, it's rather surprising that he was involved in the escape plan. My memory of the situation is that the boy was taken by the mother without the father's knowledge.
To say that Elian was sent back to Cuba because of parental rights is a wretched joke perpetrated upon Elian, for in Cuba there are no parental rights. The communist State literaly owns all the children.
I'd tend to say that most Americans were operating under an American conception of parental rights, not a Cuban one. On other threads on FR father's rights are considered sacrosanct. Why not in this situation?
its peaceful, law abiding occupants
Peaceful and law abiding? Didn't the family refuse to cooperate with the law at every turn? Didn't they lock the boy in the house so as to prevent him from being taken peacefully?
Just some observations.
If you are looking for a perfect world you might want to try Cuba.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Cuba is akin to the old East Germany mothers and fathers would DIE to get their children across the Berlin wall. These are not mexicans looking for a job these are people living in tyrany.
Obviously you have never had to deal with family or loved ones who are trapped behind an iron curtain or you would not be so flipant.
Clinton attempted by executive fiat to alter what is a guiding principle of assylum to those who have fled communisms iron boot. Clinton also was afraid of another mariel which Castro publicly said he would do if the boy was not turned over. Reno, Clinton, and Pinelas were all complicit in facilitating a tyrany. It is also telling that contrary to procedure, the clinton administration ordered the then INS service files shreaded.
This was not a simple custody case, the mother had actual custody. The father only became an issue when Castro ordered it.
Your quaint effort to compare fleeing communism to mexicans crossing deserts in order to illegally participate in the ecconomy are laughable. Mexico is not a communist country.
It should also be noted that at the time of elian he DID ENTER LEGALLY as an asylum seeker. The law provided for such entry for Cuban nationals. The Clinton administration failed to uphold the law in order to prevent another mariel boat lift and was in fear of his political legacy.
Clinton, Reno and by complicity Pinelas turned a thankgiving miracle into a Castro propaganda victory.
Yet another example of why a democrat like kerry does not belong int the white house. Peggy Noonan wrote Ronald Reagan would have simply said "the boy stays."
You mean a "Communist" conception, don't you?
My family is Cuban for generations and the traditional Cuban concept is that you don't give up a child to a parent who asks for him when he has a gun pointed at his head and is told to ask for the child.
This father's rights to say what he wanted without coercion were massively abused by the Cuban Communist Government and the Clinton Administration.
Because the father was kept under de facto house arrest during the entire time he was in the U.S., the father was under the full control of Communist Cuban agents, thanks to the Clinton Administration.
Republican Congressmen asked to meet with the father, his wife and their younger son, alone, and they were refused by the Cuban Government and the Clinton Administration. The father's second wife and younger son were always kept as hostages, under the full control of Communist Cuban agents, so that the father would say what he was supposed to say.
This hostage practice is routinely used by Communist China. The Chinese Communists will allow one family member to travel abroad but keep other family members in China to ensure “Politically Correct” behavior abroad by the other family member. Or else.
When the “Elian Grandmothers” were making their U.S. propaganda tour, closely guarded by Cuban agents, Reuters reported that their husbands were being paraded in back Havana in propaganda rallies.
Read the accounts of the negotiations prior to the SWAT team raid to seize Elian at gunpoint at great risk to Elian and all other persons in that house.
Who had veto power over any deal as negotiations were conducted that night with high profile third parties that included that the President of the University of Miami?
It was Castro's legal representative and Bill Clinton’s impeachment lawyer, Greg Craig.
What was the final proposal on the table that Lazaro Gonzalez approved? That the father, Juan Miguel, Elian and the Miami family would all move a NEUTRAL site with Juan Miguel FREE of Communist Cuban agent oversight.
Did Janet Reno approve of this plan? Yes.
Did Greg Craig and his de facto client, Fidel Castro, veto it? Yes.
Who is in control here? Fidel Castro and Greg Craig, Bill Clinton’s impeachment lawyer.
What is the common theme here? That Juan Miguel Gonzalez must always be kept under Castro/Clinton house arrest with his family held hostage by Cuban agents even while on U.S. soil and with his wife’s family held hostage back in Cuba.
If, after your death, the father of your child asked for custody while he was being held hostage, would you want your child sent to him?
Or would you at least first demand that the father be freed from his hostage situation so that we may judge what he truly wants when not under coercion?
Freedom from coercion is a "father's right", is it not?
Never comment on the following topics on Free Republic: Elian Gonzalez, death with dignity, or women working outside the home.
" In other words, Elian's mother and the group she was with were attempting to enter the country illegally."
Incorrect, Dr. M.
US law has led the world community, advocating political asylum especially to refugees from communism. US law further allows a special distinction for Cuban refugees who reach American soil, having hazarded the crossing of shark infested waters drifting to American shores. Hungarians, Viet Namese, Soviet, and so many other refugees from totalitarianism have fled their nations to come to the USA as POLITICAL REFUGEES.
Mexican illegal aliens are economic refugees. Central American illegal aliens travel by land through Mexico to come to the USA to lodge the bogus claim of political asylum. If so they could have stayed in Mexico with its similar language, culture and proximity.
"In other words, Elian's mother and the group she was with were attempting to enter the country illegally. Were they Mexicans who died of thirst in the middle of the desert or suffocated in the back of a truck, I suspect many Freepers would not describe their plight in such terms ("trying to attain freedom") and would be considerably less sympathetic."
Dr. M., presumably, your Ph. D. did not issue from a phony internet entity. Real, educated people exhibit thinking skills that would eliminate such quotes, e'er they appear, as yours in the above paragraph.
Mexicans have no greater need for drinking water on the desert than Cubans do on salt-water. If they, from a desert environment themselves, fail to plan as well as the Cubans, how is that an apt comparison? Suffocating in the back of a truck smacks of people playing fast and loose with their own lives, foolishly trying to buy their way into the US via some criminal enterprize. But most of all, these Mexican illegal aliens are ECONOMIC REFUGEES, unlike the Cubans who are POLITICAL REFUGEES.
Navigating the Straits of Florida on a sail-raft exhibits the kind of hope and confidence in one's own abilities that brought the brightest and best to the shores of America and has helped make America the land of the free and the home of the brave.
"If the father had so little involvement in the boy's life, it's rather surprising that he was involved in the escape plan. My memory of the situation is that the boy was taken by the mother without the father's knowledge."
Your memory like your flawed polemic fails you. The uncle had been in on the plan to escape Cuba. After Elian became a world figure, Castro got in on the act and used his powers of "persuasion" on Juan, who was one of his employees, and to rewrite the family history.
Dr. M. says, "I'd tend to say that most Americans were operating under an American conception of parental rights, not a Cuban one. On other threads on FR father's rights are considered sacrosanct. Why not in this situation?"
This is an international, not unilateral, issue. International law recognizes the rights of children to be free from repression and abuse, by definition the Cuban experience for all its little ones. How this irony escapes you, Dr. M., that children, mothers and fathers have no basic rights of any sort in Cuba is indicative of your blindness to what is really going on in the Elian Gonzales issue.
The Clintonistas preferred pleasing Castro, their ideological comrade, than protecting anyone's rights, especially those of the mother who died trying to get her son to freedom, those of the boy and even those of the father.
Never on Freerepublic do people advocate that a father has an untrammeled right to subject his son to abuse, which was a certainty upon Elian's return to totalitarianism.