Posted on 06/05/2004 11:18:02 PM PDT by adam_az
Wow, the Spector guy is one soulless dude.
First he says the crew should thank their lucky stars because he is such a great aviator...and then he accuses the surviving crew of being Anti-Semitic because they haven't met with him.
It's probably because they would have to be refrained from kicking his POS arse.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theories but yeesh have a little sympathy for the innocent crew.
It's probably because they would have to be refrained from kicking his POS arse.
LOL, now we know the TRUE reason for keeping the IAF pilots names in secrecy.
How many blue on blue or blue on grey incidents were there in World War 2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War I, Afghanistan, and Gulf War 2? Hundreds.
Combatants may board vessels to ascertain whether they are carrying war materials to one of the belligerants but that's not quite the same as "shoot first and ask questions later".
Violation of those laws is a war crime..not to mention lousy tactics.
Thousands. Look, at 500 knts, nothing is clear. What is clear is the aftermath. A Marine Colonel above said it the best...
There should have been a meaningful apology and there should be a memorial in Israel to the American men who fell at their hands.
41 posted on 06/06/2004 11:28:48 AM CDT by USMCVet
Israel made many apologies and paid restitution.
Apparently, Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Yiftach Spector, head of IAF Operations wasn't informed...
"They must understand that a mistake was made here," Spector said. "The fool is one who wanders about in the dark in dangerous places, so they should not come with any complaints."
While "strong dismay" was conveyed to Ambassador Harman, so too were the Administration's thanks for the speed of Israel's notification. Apologies soon came in from Prime Minister Levi Eshkol ("Please accept my profound condolences and convey my sympathy to all the bereaved families") and Foreign Minister Abba Eban ("I am deeply mortified and grieved by the tragic accident involving the lives and safety of Americans"), as well as from the Israeli chargé d'affaires in Washington, Efraim Evron, a personal friend of Johnson's ("I grieve with you over the lives that were lost, and share in the sorrow of the parents, wives and children of the men who died in this cruel twist of fate"). Within forty-eight hours, the Israeli government offered to compensate the victims and their families.36http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/liberty1.html
A bad tactic is one that gets you in trouble later. A worse tatctic is one that gets you killed now. So I chose bad tactics, rather than worse ones -- like any sane person should.
Had that been a Russian war ship the outcome would have been worse than "bad tactics".
And in hot war -- any short war triggered upon a surprise attack after a build-up of armies on the borders is going to be very hot -- terrible mistakes must be expected to happen.
Friendly fire incidents -- such as our own during Gulf War I -- come about because of the necessarily short-fused decision timings -- reactionary, not considered. They can't be.
I agree with you about trying the international channels. However, I haven't seen any articles stating that a flag was flying. As for the wind, the transcript said the ship was moving away at a fast rate of speed. This tells me that the flag would have been waving.
Picture this, you're a US ship, in international waters, you come under attack by aircraft with Israeli markings.
You;
A. Make sure the aircraft can identify your ship by flying the American colors.
B. Send 25,000-50,000 watts of radio power to all who happen to be lisening on maritine frequencies, that you're an American ship under attack.
C. Sit on your butt and pray the Israelis will figure out by themselves they made a bad call.
D. Both A and B.
Many on this thread believe "C" is the correct answer. I don't.
That right there is the crux of it. They can't afford to trust too much, or to ask and then shoot when time is a luxury they don't have. Israeli's have a survival mentality that cannot indulge or they could be killed. Literally.
IMHO, Americans could learn a little something about homeland security form the Israelis.
13:50 KISLEV: Yigal, you have a ship at 26 (site designation). Take Kursa over there. If it's a warship then screw it.
14:14 MENACHEM Kislev, what country?
KISLEV Apparently American.
24 minutes. Short-fused decision timings. Get a life.
Learn what?
Would you call what's going on there a success?
It WAS flying. But you try to see Old Glory when you're moving at 9-10 miles a minute passing over the ship...fighter pilots are notorious for not being able to see jack-s**t if said jack-s**t is on the ground or water.
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