Posted on 06/05/2004 11:18:02 PM PDT by adam_az
I take it by your question mark that you're not sure if that's the answer to the my question. Get back to me when you finally figure it out.
Unless your IQ has been halfed in the last day or two, you know exactly what the point is and are just choosing to ignore it. Standard disruptor bs.
I'm definately not defending the Israeli pilots in this instance because I doubt the truth will ever be known. That being said, in the first Gulf War, the second Gulf War, and the Afghanistan campaign (Pat Tillman) many instances of fratricide occured. The voice recording of an Apache helicoptor pilot destroying (unknowingly) a Bradley fighting vehicle and killing US troops comes vividly to mind. This was a terrible occurance and I hope this type of event never happens again. If this truly was a deliberate attack on a known US ship, I hope the people that ordered the attack burn in hell.
Not even close, my oxygen-starved friend. Your post #126 doesn't even come close.
The ONLY subject of the "news report" from that anti-Semitic, Nazi, skinhead source that freefly posted (and pretended not to know where it from), was an unsupported claim that some Israeli military personnel had refused to partake in the attack on the USS Liberty.
Where in your post #126 did it refer to Israeli military personnel that refused to partake in the attack?
Where in your post #126 did it refer to an Israeli pilot that refused to fire on the USS Liberty?
Where in your post #126 did it refer an Israeli lead pilot, named Amon Even-Tov?
Your post challenged zip, zero, nada, nothing about that issue. Want to try again?
--Boot Hill
"Why won't those ungrateful bastards bow down and thank him for not using more powerful weapons against them? They must be anti-Semites!"
That is a disingenuous paraphrase.
This sentence is very supportive of the author's position. If they had been sent out to sink the Liberty on purpose, the Israeli Air Force is quite capable of doing so very rapidly with bombs or torpedos. However the aircraft were not so armed, because they were on patrol for aircraft and the Liberty was in an Egyptian "flee zone". Seems like our boys got a bit too close to the action. The question I have is: was the Liberty flying a flag, if not why not, and if so could it be seen from 5,000 feet. The Israelis clearly should have made a serious attempt to identify the craft before firing. Then again, the banter indicates they suspected the boat was shelling the coast and they wanted to act fast. I would like to see the American side de-classified as well. Surely we had more info than just what the seamen had to say.
What does your post #126 have to do with any claims of anti-Semitism?
You've really bitten off more than you can chew here, SF. I have never advanced any claim that even hinted that having doubts about either the Israeli or American explanation of the Liberty attack, was in any way, anti-Semitic.
Next time, think before you post.
--Boot Hill
Sure. Freefly's posts also said the USS Liberty had been torpedoed, which it was. Apparently the transcripts that the jerusalem post have leave a little out.
He said "I'm sorry for the mistake." in the very paragraph you quoted! Hello!
People don't seem to realize how hot this zone was. Imagine an unidentified foreign military aircraft flying off the Atlantic City coast on 9/11.
Yeah I don't remember the pilots in "Top Gun" taking a sensitivity training class. These guys are arrogant asses--THEY HAVE TO BE. It makes them invincible in the air. They do their job, try and come home alive, and they don't look back.
It was flying a flag. I don't know whether said flag could be clearly seen by a jet fighter zipping along at 10 miles per minute (that's 880 feet PER SECOND) at a distance of 5,000 feet. Fighter pilots are notorious for not missing things on the Earth's surface, no matter how hard they are looking.
I would like to see the American side de-classified as well. Surely we had more info than just what the seamen had to say.
The American side remains officially classified over thirty years later.
Several personages formerly employed by the NSA stated in the 1980s that the Liberty was engaged in electronic reconnaisance against the Egyptian Air Force at the time of the attack, determining whether or not Badger bombers in Egyptian markings were being flown by Russians or Egyptians. Several survivors from the Liberty have repeated it verbatim as fact.
The story is one of American geeks triumphing over the atheistic Commies by intercepting air-ground communications from the Badger aircraft in Russian, mere seconds before the perfidious Zionists set out to murder Americans with malice aforethought.
The story makes for a great movie.
It has only one tiny flaw: it's pure BS.
After the Cold War, the Russians opened up a bunch of their archives. One researcher, looking for information on Russian aid to Egypt during the Six-Day War, found out the facts: The bombers in question were not flying on June 8th, 1967, nor were they using air-to-ground radios: the Russians had bugged them out to Alexandria on Day 1 of the war and kept them grounded for the duration of the war. They stayed off the air for fear of IDing the facility they were at as a major airfield.
These good folks from the NSA know what the Liberty was really doing out there, and why the NSA had systematically isolated it from all Navy chains of command. They have seen fit to lie about it. The crew has seen fit to repeat these lies to this day.
Until somebody on our side of the aisle starts to be honest with me, I will ignore their claims of Israeli perfidy.
And you just described their good points (c8
What has that got to do with anything? At no time was the issue of torpedoes a bone of contention between freefly and me.
The ONLY issue under contention between me and freefly, was freefly's posting of the so-called "news report" from that anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi, skinhead website, that offered an unsubstantiated claim that an Israeli pilot had recognized the vessel as American, and refused orders to fire, and was subsequently arrested when he returned to base.
I challenged that claim, but most especially I challenged freefly's unrepentant use of material sourced from a neo-Nazi website. This is something you would have known, if you had just taken the time to read the exchanges between freefly and me.
Look, SF, I don't have time to do your reading for you. If you can't come to the table prepared and having read all the relevant posts, then don't bother me. And especially don't jump in so damn self-righteously when you're so damn wrong.
If you were to darn lazy to read the posts, at the very least you could have started off asking questions, rather than flinging your arrogant crap around, the way you did.
--Boot Hill
A mistake is made when a left turn is made instaead of a right turn.
Getting caught is a mistake only in method.
FF Well ashamed is a bit strong, but I'll certainly admit that it's a poor source...however, it's 1 of the the only 2 indications that SOME Israelis wouldn't fire on an ally in spite of orders...the other being that 4 out of 5 torpedoes are supposed to have missed. Pretty poor shooting considering the circumstances (even if the helmsman of the Liberty WAS highly motivated).
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Like I said, jump on over to USSLiberty.org and take a good look at the USS Liberty sitting in dry dock in Malta with the big torpedoe hole in it's side. Some of what Freefly posted was apparently correct.
Nice try, but your own posts show it to be the bs that it is.
Good grief, you still don't get it! I have never challenged anything about the Israeli use of torpedoes.
Now explain to me just how torpedoes are relevant to the whether freefly's claim about the Israeli pilot is true or false. And explain to me just how torpedoes are relevant to the irresponsibility of freefly using a neo-Nazi website to support his claim.
Screaming is no substitute for thinking, SF.
--Boot Hill
FF Well ashamed is a bit strong, but I'll certainly admit that it's a poor source...however, it's 1 of the the only 2 indications that SOME Israelis wouldn't fire on an ally in spite of orders...the other being that 4 out of 5 torpedoes are supposed to have missed. Pretty poor shooting considering the circumstances (even if the helmsman of the Liberty WAS highly motivated).
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Like I told you before, I charge extra for mind reading services. Apparently you see some contradiction between those quotes. Please point out where there the contradiction is. (hint: there isn't any!)
--Boot Hill
Oh for crying out load BH. Freefly's post (now removed) said the USS liberty had been torpedoed and that a "mysterious" IAF pilot had refused to bomb it. I said WAAAAYY up in the thread that I couldn't find any reference to this "mysterious" pilot except on internet conspiracy sites. However, the USS Liberty WAS hit with a torpedo.
You ragged Freefly for posting "skin head" material from the git-go and all the way through this thread, even though it now turns out his "info" was at least partially correct. Perhaps you should actually read your own posts and stop letting your USC students post them for you. Is this clear enough or do I have to make little stick figure drawings for you?
BH I suspected that it was not an oversight on your part, when you failed to provide a link or URL to the source of the news report you posted in #50. But based on your reply and your characterization of those neo-Nazi, skin-heads as merely being "a poor source" and a "obscure source", it is now clear to me that you were fully aware of their vile nature when you posted that crap.
Stick figure number 1. The bottom quote would be YOUR response to Freefly.
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