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Police seize legal gunowner
WorldNetDaily ^ | 6/5/04 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 06/05/2004 8:48:52 PM PDT by natewill

A gunowners group is protesting the seizure of a legally armed citizen in a bookstore by two police officers who responded to an anonymous caller alarmed by the weapon.

Michael Pelletier was browsing a Manchester, N.H., Barnes & Noble with his wife March 27 when a police officer, assisted by a colleague, suddenly grabbed him by the right shoulder and his holster and pushed him toward the corner of a bookcase, says Gunowners of America.

The Manchester Police Department officers, Chris Byron and David DuPont, ordered Pelletier to place his hands on his head, which he did at once, the group said.

Pelletier was carrying a pistol openly at the small of his back, which became apparent after he took off his jacket.

The officers then disarmed Pelletier and escorted him out of the store. Background checks revealed no record, but officers and detectives issued a barrage of questions about why he carries a gun and what kind of training he had, the gun group said.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunowner; policeseize
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To: Melas
Melas, from Terry v. Ohio:
Whenever a police officer accosts an individual and restrains his freedom to walk away, he has "seized" that person within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.

I was "seized within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment."

161 posted on 06/07/2004 6:32:39 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: BOOTSTICK

Do I look like a "hayseed" to you? This is how I looked when I was grabbed that evening.
162 posted on 06/07/2004 6:42:47 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

Hope you, at least, get an apology. I wouldn't lay even money on it though.


163 posted on 06/07/2004 6:45:38 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: natewill

Lawyer time.

Hope he sues the pants off the officers, the department, the store and the town.


164 posted on 06/07/2004 6:46:08 AM PDT by ZULU (They weree)
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To: ZULU
My attorney is Penny Dean, of Concord, who's also on the board of Gun Owners of New Hampshire.

We've gotten the 911 tapes preserved, but since the PD is calling this an "internal investigation" we can't get anything more out of them under the RSA 91-A right-to-know law. Filing a lawsuit is very expensive, and I'd prefer to spend my money on the adoption we're planning - we're going to see if the pressure we're working on applying in other areas, including through the Governor of New Hampshire, will be sufficient.

165 posted on 06/07/2004 6:51:42 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

If you decide to sue, post it on FreeRepublic. I'd send a check, and I'm sure others would.

Live Free or Die should live up to its motto.
(Maybe you're getting too many infiltrators from New York City via Vermont up there. They are colonizing Vermont like they have colonized Florida. Not only can't they read the Constitution, they can't figure out to vote.)


166 posted on 06/07/2004 6:58:13 AM PDT by ZULU (They weree)
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To: ZULU

We'd definately pass the hat.


167 posted on 06/07/2004 7:14:13 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Dead Corpse

Hey dummy, I AM ARMED IN MY BUSINESS, my customers however are not allowed, keeps me happy, keeps my customers happy, keeps my insurance company happy. If you think I'm wrong , just go to your local mall, ask for the leasing/business office, and simply ask if it's ok to armed with a loaded weapon while on their property. Good luck!


168 posted on 06/07/2004 7:45:59 AM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: Mulder
People here keep missing the point that these officers very likely committed federal felonies, on top of any state charges involving deprivation of civil rights and battery.

That's a total spin on what really happened. The system worked here, and worked perfectly. The police recieved a complaint, investigated, found the complaint to be groundless and immediately released the suspect on the scene. It doesn't get anymore perfect than that.

I'm much happier with a system where the police investigate first, dismiss second. I'd have a much greater problem with Psychic Police (tm) who're inclined to decide the validity of a complaint without even showing up.

169 posted on 06/07/2004 7:47:00 AM PDT by Melas
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To: Mulder

Sorry, anyone in a retail bookstore with an open weapon in the small of his back is a dim witted, boarder line moron, and a poor citizen!


170 posted on 06/07/2004 7:48:30 AM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: mvpel

Why don't you e-mail Barnes and Noble, ask what their position is on customers entering their stores with open, loaded weapons. My guess, they are against it, and so is the insurance company that writes their policy. Hey wait a minute, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess they don't want any loaded weapons on their premisis , concealed or not!


171 posted on 06/07/2004 7:52:19 AM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: Melas
Sorry, Melas. You've got it wrong.

In Florida v. J.L., the Supreme Court required that a tip be reliable in its assertion of illegality, not just its tendancy to identify a particular person, before it may be relied upon to effect a seizure.

An accurate description of a subject's readily observable location and appearance is of course reliable in this limited sense: It will help the police correctly identify the person whom the tipster means to accuse. Such a tip, however, does not show that the tipster has knowledge of concealed criminal activity. The reasonable suspicion here at issue requires that a tip be reliable in its assertion of illegality, not just in its tendency to identify a determinate person.

...

Firearms are dangerous, and extraordinary dangers sometimes justify unusual precautions. Our decisions recognize the serious threat that armed criminals pose to public safety; Terry 's rule, which permits protective police searches on the basis of reasonable suspicion rather than demanding that officers meet the higher standard of probable cause, responds to this very concern. See 392 U. S., at 30 . But an automatic firearm exception to our established reliability analysis would rove too far. Such an exception would enable any person seeking to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search of the targeted person simply by placing an anonymous call falsely reporting the target's unlawful carriage of a gun. Nor could one securely confine such an exception to allegations involving firearms.


172 posted on 06/07/2004 7:55:38 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: happydogdesign

HOLY CRAP, I bet that has a small kick!


173 posted on 06/07/2004 7:55:58 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: BOOTSTICK

If they did not wish weapons on their premises, they could post a sign. The fact that they have not, and that the general manager of the store personally told me that they do not wish to bar those who lawfully carry firearms, suggests otherwise.


174 posted on 06/07/2004 7:57:05 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: BOOTSTICK

Gee, thanks, Bootstick, I'll keep the fact that you think I'm a dim-witted borderline moron in mind the next time I think about joining MENSA.


175 posted on 06/07/2004 7:59:21 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: BOOTSTICK
Listen up sh*twit, I'm only going to say this once. Here in Texas busnisses are required to post a warning that unlicensed concealed carry is verboten, but other than that they cannot prohibit lawful carry. Neither would they want to.

Ask Suzanna Grati-Hupp and Luby's cafe why not.

They oughta make asshat business owners like you culpable for dis-allowing personal protection should your store get held up or fall victim to an attack.

176 posted on 06/07/2004 8:05:40 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: BOOTSTICK

Calling everyone a moron, is, well,,,,moronic.


177 posted on 06/07/2004 8:11:58 AM PDT by Protagoras (Control is the goal, freedom is the obstacle)
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To: BOOTSTICK
Hey dummy, I AM ARMED IN MY BUSINESS, my customers however are not allowed,

Do you post a sign boot? -- Do you have a metal detector at the shops entrance? - Or do you conduct searches?

keeps me happy, keeps my customers happy,

How do you know if your customers are 'happy' at having to conceal, from you, what they may be carrying?

the fact keeps my insurance company happy.

Your business insurance has a 'no gun' clause? Really? --- How much does it save you over standard policys that don't specify such arcane 'risks'?

If you think I'm wrong , just go to your local mall, ask for the leasing/business office, and simply ask if it's ok to armed with a loaded weapon while on their property. Good luck!

Why ask? We have an inalienable right to carry arms. Obviously, there are a lot of people, like you, that disagree with that principle. - - I find it best to ignore such fools.

178 posted on 06/07/2004 8:25:36 AM PDT by tpaine (The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
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To: tpaine
He needs a sign out front:

"No GUNS allowed. I don't care if you can protect yourself, I just want your money."

179 posted on 06/07/2004 8:36:34 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Dead Corpse; BOOTSTICK

Yea, that'll get em in the door.

Although I wonder if a door, and his business even exist.. I think bootie is like a lot of FReepers here, in that he's actually selling his dreams.


180 posted on 06/07/2004 8:52:18 AM PDT by tpaine (The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
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