Posted on 06/04/2004 5:04:05 AM PDT by kristinn
While Grand Forks City Council candidate Scott McNamee's recent poll-stacking stunt has outraged some, others are outraged at the outrage.
His defenders, including members of the FreeRepublic.com Web site that he frequents, said there is nothing wrong with organizing people to overwhelm online polls, an activity known as "FReeping" after the Web site.
That's just what McNamee did a week ago when, posing as someone close to the candidate, he asked FreeRepublic.com members, FReepers, to vote for him on the online poll of Grand Forks radio station KNOX 1310's "Voice of Dakota" talk show.
That's not unethical, McNamee's defenders say, because online polls are unscientific, and no one takes them seriously. Besides, they say, liberal activists do it, too, so conservatives such as McNamee and his FReeper buddies are only returning the favor.
But for those unhappy with McNamee's tactics, including his opponent, council member Curt Kreun, the old adage still applies: Two wrongs don't make a right. Talk show host Dakota Huseby noted that if the online poll were meaningless, why would anyone bother?
McNamee, for his part, has apologized but is still unsure whether what he did was unethical because it is so ingrained in online culture, even if it causes a local outcry. "The worldwide rules online are very different from local rules," he said.
What are the norms?
Online political activists expect poll stacking as part of any normal campaign. Those who complain about it are seen as either naive or hypercritical.
In response to the Herald story about McNamee's freeping, Lil'freeper, a fellow FReeper, posted online a picture of a Kleenex box and these words to KNOX executives: "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Get over yourselves ... You ought to apologize for being idiot enough to take such a thing seriously and just laugh it off."
Some FReepers claim the Herald story was biased against conservatives. "Funny," wrote RandallFlagg, "No mention of the fact that other Internet folks on the left are guilty of the exact same thing."
The evidence was a link to a discussion board at DemocraticUnderground.com, the liberal's answer to FreeRepublic.com. One group member, "slor," explained poll stacking, which is known as DUing for DU members: "If a poll result might influence even one person from supporting these idiots in charge, then I have no qualms with it."
To this moral relativity, Kreun said, "If I kill somebody, is it okay for you to kill somebody? Sheesh! Two wrongs don't make a right!" He said had he done what McNamee did, people would ask him to resign.
McNamee replied that had that happened, "I would be his staunchest defender. I'd pat him on the back and say 'You understand the online world well.'" He said if he called or e-mailed friends asking them to vote in the poll, no one would think twice, yet posting a request for votes online is seen as unethical.
Huseby said calling friends is different from going to a Web site known for stacking polls. It was a matter of scale, she said.
Different rules
For Rob Kweit, a political scientist at UND, it was more a matter of different ethical standards. "North Dakotans have a very high sense of ethics and community, and this basically elicited outsiders to come in and express their opinions for political purposes."
"In Chicago politics," he said, "this would be seen as ethical because this is the way the game is played." But here, he said, it's seen as a breach of trust.
In the same way, negative ads run by Rep. Earl Pomeroy's, D-N.D., and his challenger Rick Clayburgh's campaigns last year caused a backlash. "There was a sense that the rest of the country can have it, but it's not done here."
Yet, McNamee is not without local supporters.
After the Herald ran a story about McNamee's freeping, several readers wrote to complain.
"Whatever KNOX is doing over there, it's not a 'poll,'" wrote Brian Petersen of Ward 7. "It's a name-recognition test or a time-filler or - most obviously - a harmless little stunt for publicity, which you and the Herald have now given them in spades.
"Why shouldn't Mr. McNamee be able to ask people on a Web site to vote for him? Again, it's not a poll. Who's to say Curt Kreun hasn't voted 15 times for himself?"
Free advertising
Yet, as meaningless as online polls are to some, they do play a meaningful role.
"The reason why they do that (freeping), even though everyone knows polls are unscientific, is because people still cite them as evidence of public opinion," said Kristinn Taylor, co-leader of the Washington, D.C., chapter of FReepers. "They know that they are unsound, but they know they are used for propaganda purposes, and they're also used in the news media."
Huseby, in fact, had discussed the poll results on the air, though it was tempered with skepticism, since McNamee was beating Kreun 80 percent to 20 percent.
"It's not like buying votes or stuffing ballot boxes - real ballot boxes not some phony poll on the Internet," Taylor said. He added that McNamee posing as someone else is more of a problem.
Huseby admits her poll is vulnerable to manipulation but still thinks McNamee's freeping was "inappropriate," especially when he posed as someone else. She cited McNamee's message to fellow FReepers, thanking them for their help.
"The poll results will be broadcast throughout the day tomorrow on the radio station and is just like having free advertising," McNamee wrote.
That shows, Huseby said, "there was a hope in getting a bump in the election itself."
To that, the FReepers would say: "Duh!"
FReeper Charles Henrickson posted advice to Kreun: "You need tons (of) click 'coordinating.'"
Kreun said he considers poll manipulation a way to manipulate the election and is an indicator of a candidate's integrity.
But it's not clear how many voters would agree. Kreun said people who called him tell him freeping is a very serious issue, but McNamee said his callers said the opposite. That's why, he said, he's staying in the race, even though he had seriously considered leaving a week ago.
• On the Net: The conservative side: www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1143704/posts. The liberal side: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=523464#523518. An article on poll stacking (Be warned of profanity): www.gettingit.com/article/182.
You're quoted ping!
I asked the reporter if outsiders were allowed to make campaign contributions to local races. He didn't know the answer. With this comment by Mr. Kweit about the disdain for outsiders involving themselves in the local political process, one would have thought the reporter would have had an answer to my question for this article. It would help put this tempest in a teapot in perspective.
Which is funny, because what I said was itself a quote, from that hilariously translated German article whining about having to compete with the FReeping of online polls:
Thanks for the reminder. Who knew that freeping online polls could cause such worldwide trauma?
Hey, 'pod. I'm famous, too!
GAAHHH! I'm FAMOUS!!!
"Posing" sounds like deception.
Actually, I'm glad that they posted the link to DU. Give the public a little peek into the librat's own private hell. Show the world what they are truly like.
Thusly, converting more to OUR side. Profanity and hate inspires no one.
Thanks for the ping, Kristinn
The reporters at the Grand Forks Herald should get out of the office once and a while and go find some real news. Journalism finds itself in a truly sad state if our daily online ramblings qualify as newsworthy.
'To that, the FReepers would say: "Duh!"'
The author doesn't realize the ironic humor in this sentence.
Oh, come on, this is just the Internet 'Get Out the Vote' campaign.... :-)
Welcome to the information superhighway. Don't drive like an idiot.
A couple times a year some genius figures out their online poll has been freeped and pitches a fit about it. This is just the latest episode.
When a candidate asks people to get involved in their race, they should make it clear. On the other hand, if they're just commenting on the issues of the day like everyone else they should have the same right to anonimity that others choose to exercise on the web.
It's the radio station's "shock" that their website would be "hacked" that really gets me. I would go so far as to say that they're whipping this dead horse as a favor to invoman's opponent.
I love that there has to be a profanity warning on the lib web sites.
The line between the DU cesspool and the outward behavior of Democrats has dissolved over the past couple years. Leaders like Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi would be right at home there.
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