Neoconned?

If we don't, if we say that it's ok to $100 billion increases to Medicaid, then aren't conservatives no different than the modern liberals?

No. The thing you have to factor in is the People of the USA get to decide what the government will do. If legislators don't do what the People want done then they are voted out of office and replaced with legislators who will do what the People want. There was no choice in the matter. Medicaid reform was inevitable the only question was will Republicans give control of the country back to the 'rats by ignoring the will of the People.

In my opinion the package passed by our Republican Congress is better and less costly than the 'rat version.

This is a liberal argument. A modern liberal could use the same argument for abortion or eminent domain property seizures or an income taxation of 75%. At some point, individual rights must trump the "will of the people", otherwise we're left with a tyranny of the majority forewarned by Jefferson, Bastiat, Washington, and many others. If the will of 51% is communism, should we become a communist state? If the will of 51% is to enslave the other 49%, should it then be legal?

In my opinion the package passed by our Republican Congress is better and less costly than the 'rat version.

Probably. Doesn't mean I'm going to support it. It's a liberal increase in an ever increasing government that takes more and more of our property and earnings every year. The Democrats want to completely nationalize health care... which will eventually either:

A. Bankrupt our society or

B. Cause a massive reduction in the medical care of the average citizen.

So yes. Is the current increase in Medicaid better than the Democrat alternative? Yes. Is it good? No. Would it be better to privatize or offer a voluntary system for government health benefits? Of course. Allow people to choose whether or not to take part in these entitlement programs. Privatize.

This is a liberal argument. A modern liberal could use the same argument for abortion or eminent domain property seizures or an income taxation of 75%.

My "liberal argument" applies equally well when the will of the People forced Clinton to sign Welfare reform.

If the will of 51% is communism, should we become a communist state?

Yes, as long as the 51% have the freedom to go back to capitalism when communism is found lacking like welfare. You need only open your eyes to see Government infringes on the individual's right to life, property, practice of religion, and to keep and bear arms. We may not be a communist nation, but the socialism is already here and has been here for a long time. We already redistribute wealth in hundreds of forms, so any proclamation of Doom because of Dubya's acquiescence to the will of the people is kinda weak in my opinion. Individual rights are dandy in theory but the Constitution is no longer a safety net for the individual, if it ever was.

Individual rights are the guarantee of the Constitution, but the battle that decided if America would live under the confines of the Constitution was fought and lost over 200 years ago in Marbury V Madison. In 1801 the Supreme Court decided that Madison, who wrote the Constitution, did not know what his words meant. Today, the Constitution means what ever 9 Supreme Court Justices say it means. The only recourse we have is the People. If the SCOTUS interprets the Constitution in a way that angers the People enough, the People can demand impeachment or elect Senators and Presidents who will stack the Supreme court with Justices who will interpret the Constitution in the fashion the People think it should be interpreted. This is what keeps relative stability of the SCOTUS decisions. The People have all the power.

If the will of 51% is to enslave the other 49%, should it then be legal?

The Constitution allowed slavery for about 100 years. Eventually the People get it right and I would rather trust in the goodness of the American people than a dictator who ignores the will of the People because he "knows what is best for America." I bet Hitler, and Stalin didn't think of themselves as monsters...they thought they were doing what was best for the people.

I don't like much of what the People want anymore than you do. I think it is wrong to take my hard earned money and give it to PBS...or anybody except my family. I'm not happy about an increase in Medicare or any other socialist program, but I have to convince my neighbor and the rest of the voters before that will change. This is the world we live in and these are the rules. You don't have to like the way it is, but it does no good to close your eyes and pretend it isn't so. Complaining that Dubya is doing the will of the People is like complaining about death to God. Your wasting a lot of time and energy that could be better spent trying to change the minds of the People.

L, I too saw the misinformed statement about "no good news", And agree that the Iraq People are for the freedom we offer. But, The people aren't running things, and those who are, are for the most part {if not all} wanting to IMPOSE their brand of totalitarianism. And, NOT even "our" representatives have offered up any document even close to resembling our U.S. of A. Constitution. The "freedom" we are selling worldwide more resembles the "new" E.U. Constitution which is socialism in words, and, as usual, totalitarian in enforcement. Nothing new. Thousands of pages defining how unelected appointed bureaucrats will make rules and regulations regarding all aspects of life under the "watchful" eyes of some annointed "leader". The Komitat personified under another "new" name.

No, I have not been "brainwashed". By EITHER "side". May the U.S. of A. Constitution with it's attendent Amendments live a long and prosperous life and multiply throughout the world. A concise document that works VERY well in the governing of mankind. But, not likely under present or proposed leadership.

By the way, I was in the Army when the "movement" began here, and still disagree vehemently with the "individualist" peaceniks. Peace and love, George.

The Constitution allowed slavery for about 100 years.

So it was ok for 100 years as long as the will of the people decided for it? It was ok as long as it was legal and decided by the majority? Shouldn't the rights of each individual slave have trumped the rights of the majority?

Eventually the People get it right and I would rather trust in the goodness of the American people than a dictator who ignores the will of the People because he "knows what is best for America."

Eventually, the people get it right? Seems to me we're getting a bigger and bigger more intrusive and socialistic government every decade. Look at the size of the government with respect to the GDP over the last 100 years. You're telling me the majority, as well as the representatives they elect, are invariably right? We're moving in the right direction? The trendline for our nation is most definitely going down over the last century...

I bet Hitler, and Stalin didn't think of themselves as monsters...they thought they were doing what was best for the people.

Hitler? Interesting. You mean Hitler from the democratically elected Nazi Party supported by the 'will of the People'?

Isn't that what I'm doing? Some people don't even recognize that it's happening and when I criticize it you:

A: Tell me it's the will of the people and

B: Tell me that I should convince others that it's wrong.

Isn't that what I'm doing?

This is the world we live in and these are the rules.

The rules suck. I don't like the rules you've created. It opens the doors to liberal seizure of arms, property, and wealth. I will always be evangelical in my support of those ideals. I should criticize it, not accept it as the will of the people, because how the heck else am I supposed to convince the people that it's the wrong way? Let the impending financial crisis convince them?

You don't have to like the way it is, but it does no good to close your eyes and pretend it isn't so. Complaining that Dubya is doing the will of the People is like complaining about death to God.

What? So don't complain about it, just let the people decide, while convincing them to go another route, but again without complaint... ??

Your wasting a lot of time and energy that could be better spent trying to change the minds of the People.

Ugh. I'm detecting a lot of double-speak here.

"Nice rant buddy; particularly regarding the utopian dreamers in the media. They are a treacherous breed whose 'services' have been bought by their seditious masters at the top of the media food chain."

Think of the insanity of what you've said because essentially the pack of Liberal-Socialist hyenas who reject our way of life have been *bought*.
That demonstrates just how crazy this has gotten.

The Liberal-Socialist pigs have always wallowed in the mud, and I never gave a damn since the filth looked *good* on 'em, OK?

But it has since dawned on me the Liberal-Socialist quislings are really -- & I mean *really* -- effecting this administration's ability to govern; insofar, as how in the world can the administration possibly be "honeset" with the American people when they [must] know damned well the GD'd quisling mediots will twist everything said they'd want the public to know?

They're screwing up this nation to a point everything's grinding either to a complete halt, or winding up in some state of gridlock.

The Liberal-Socialist quisling mediots are *not* "The Problem", FGS.
The Liberal-Socialist quisling mediots *ARE* "The Enemy"!
Period.

"Someone mentioned in an earlier post we are at war on two fronts: the Dims and radical Islam. Would that it were so. Both could be easily defeated were it not for the constant bomb throwing(thank you Bill O'Reilly)by the media at all things traditional/conservative...AMERICAN!"

Yup, you got it my friend.
The American public had better wake up & see what's going down because truly (I feel) time's got to be running out, after which once [that] point's been passed it'll be too late to reverse what's been started.

"On another front, the slithering into academia at all levels by the elitists/statists goes all but unnoticed and unreported, even by Fox."

*Especially* by the whores at Fox; because, those shameless scum KNOW their demo's overwhelmingly "conservative" making 'em a virtual sheep in wolf's clothing, as far as I'm concerned.
Reporting exactly what they want, when they want, does not an "allie" make.
Pathetic, we're truly screwed.

"I suppose it wouldn't play well at the dinner tables of America."

I'm afraid you're correct on that, too.
Might *upset* li'l *Ryan*. <\sarc>

"Fact is, whether we know it or not, we are at war on many fronts against those that would bring the last stronghold against tyranny down...that's us."

I'm at a point where it's become akin to putting a finger in a dike, hopeless.
At some point those who want to survive -- not thrive -- are going to have to CYA, head for the ?, & let the chips fall where they may.
Don'tcha think?

"Peace, Love, Dove"

Oh yea, how *rude* of me.

...peace, hugs *&* kisses to you, too. ;^)

Look at the size of the government with respect to the GDP over the last 100 years. You're telling me the majority, as well as the representatives they elect, are invariably right? We're moving in the right direction? The trendline for our nation is most definitely going down over the last century...

Federal spending as a percent of GDP has stayed at roughly between 17-19% since WWII. During WWII it hit a high of 37.91. The standard of living has certainly improved over the last 100 years. Our freedoms have increased...100 years ago women couldn't vote and Jim Crow laws prevented blacks from voting. Children worked in unsafe factories for pennies a week. The People eventually get it right.

I should criticize it, not accept it as the will of the people, because how the heck else am I supposed to convince the people that it's the wrong way?

It will take incrimental steps to get America further to the right. When Governor Thompson of WI first proposed welfare reform, there was a clamor from the left and anguished tears from the welfare recipients and even some conservatives complained because the program cost more money than the current welfare program. This was because it offered health care and child care for those enrolled in the program. The program was implimented in small steps so as to not shock the voters into voting Thompson out of office. It worked. It will be a tremendous benifit as the children of former welfare recipients see the parents working for a living rather than sitting home and collecting a check. Welfare rolls in Wisconsin have been cut by over 90%.

Now I ask you to look at the Conservatives in WI who stood up against Gov Thompson's welfare reform on principle. They sided with the 'rats and almost killed it. They look a lot like you. They can't see the big picture. A car must continue forward as it slows down. The breaks must be applied slowly or the driver will go through the windshield. Eventually the car can stop completely and even be put in reverse. The driver today is Dubya, and he is doing a great job.

"Your very passionate about politics, ideology, and morality. Your complimentary response without admission of a change of mind shows you are a skilled debater as well."

There's really no need to change my mind! I am a conservative (with some libertarian thrown in). I will never vote for Kerry or any Dem. However, I will still argue against any increase in federal funding that does not include defense. If what you say is true, and in the long run there will be the reductions that we all hope for, then I'll be one happy camper.

And I'll eat my crow. :)

I hope you're right. I'm just not convinced yet on issues like Medicaid and (gasp!) AIDS relief for Africa. My vote is faily secure for the coming election, but I'll always be the loud guy in the back trying to keep the GOP in line.

Maybe I just carve the attention...

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