OK, I'll bite. What do the North Koreans have that can shoot down our F-117's with JDAM's and Software Block II upgrades at maximum standoff range?
Posted on 05/31/2004 5:34:13 PM PDT by VaBthang4
OK, I'll bite. What do the North Koreans have that can shoot down our F-117's with JDAM's and Software Block II upgrades at maximum standoff range?
I'm just a lil ole gal whose only experience with military aviation is watching the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels at air shows, but..... $1 BILLION plus for a single plane?
And that's the F-22, the F-35 certainly has to be more.
Will we shortly get to the point where we only have a handful of planes in the Air Force due to the high unit cost, they'll be GREAT planes, but if only a few of them get taken out we're toast??
The Radar station @ Objective Oklahoma was able to get a transmission out before we the first Nighthawks hit Baghdad...plus they had their own spy network letting them know about the air traffic in and around Saudi.
The Iraqis knew something was up and they still couldn't bring down a single nighthawk. The Koreans have a lamer air defense network...built by the ChiComs, they couldn't hit'em either.
Other planes are already obsolete. What can stand up to the F-15, F-16, F-14, and F-117...much less to the F-18?
It's like being dead twice. You're already dead.
The F-22 is overkill. What we've already got makes everything else obsolete.
The next step, therefore, is going sub-orbital (something that a certain American civilian named Rutan is going to do this year), followed by orbital fighters. Unmanned fighters and bombers will likewise handle the lower altitudes as time progresses.
But the F-22 can't do what Rutan's civilian SpaceShipOne can do. It can't go as high as Rutan and it can't go as fast. Rutan's machine carries up to 3 people and costs only $10 million. The F-22 can't touch that, even though we're spending more than a Billion Dollars per Raptor right now.
Why? For what?
Nothing.
But..... they have thousands of SA-5, and tens of thousands of anti-aircraft guns. The sheer numbers are the problem. High PK against us, just from all the flying metal. They wont see it coming, but they would catch it leaving.
Jumper's paper was written pre-9/11 2001. A lot of his assumptions didn't even carry through to OEF, nevermind OIF. I watched USAF Gen Mosely during OIF cede targets to submarine launched cruise missiles for reasons Jumper never touches on. Mind you, we also had unlimited access to B-2's and other platforms. We will never have enough manned aircraft to saturate new, integrated SAM missile systems. The cruise missile tracks of our initial strikes on Baghdad looked like a wiring diagram for a warehouse full of Cray computers. They came from every direction and every altitude. And we didn't have to worry about a single egress or recovery. The entire operation was planned by 12 guys, none of whom ranked higher than O-5. And the entire cost was less than a single B-2. As a fighter guy, it was humbling (except that the head of the strike cell was a Navy fighter guy).
It looks like a little red "x"?
Man, we have to think about this.
What flak can the NK's put up above 40,000 feet?
Sukhoi's bird can square up against all of them...and win. But the Sukhoi is toast when you factor in our overall air strategy [InfSys network, Data links] ....and far more importantly, training.
Well, you see...my head is up my ass as always, and the hemoroids are messing with my brain.
I hope that F35 money goes into more airlift and more tankers. Aren't we still using KC 135s?
Haha...I appreciate your insight.
Do you wish to be taken seriously? Come on.
If you were to take every capability of Rutan's bird, then hang a JDAM or two on it, do you know what you would have? Oh, wait, I forgot about targeting systems. Oh wait, I forgot about defensive systems. Oops, JSTARS, cant forget that. Uh oh, LANTIRN, gotta have it. Oh, wait.......Oops,.......Oh!....Um....
Lets assume you did not eat your Wheaties today?
I think we're at such a moment now. Since anti-Americanism is a symptom of infection by the meme we fight (memes are self replicating, viral ideas), we're talking about something very new. Its vectors include religion, marxism, and media.
It's going to be interesting to see how we handle it. If we don't, we'll be extinct. I don't dispute our current approach, at least what is visible of it. But I think it's going to take something more creative. Right now we're just racing out to meet the barbarians at the gates. But the first lesson of 9/11 should have shown that there aren't any gates in this war.
What is our Manginot Line this time? It may be our unwillingness to manage global media in our own favor, but we can't touch it with our current laws. We can't touch it with our own current beliefs, either.
If we survive, it may never be revealed how it was accomplished. I am certain that it won't be a mechanical weapons system that neutralizes the meme that has been unleashed against us.
Something tells me we will survive, though.
Agreed.
I think you are exactly right. Except that there is no "if". We WILL survive.
If you could take a ride in one, you'd think it was cheap at twice the price...
The Immigration & Naturalization Service as well as hard & fast Border Control.
Both overwhelmingly lacking.
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