Retreat in Iraq sets up defeat in war on terror

Arizona Daily Star ^ | 5/29/04 | Clifford D. May

[SandRat]

In World War II, Americans sought victory. President Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Churchill would accept nothing less than the unconditional surrender of the totalitarian regimes against which they fought.

A few years later in Korea, the United States did accept less - an armistice. President Eisenhower preserved the independence of the southern half of the Korean Peninsula, but the north was left in the hands of totalitarian extremists who, more than 50 years later, continue to oppress the people of that land and to threaten Americans.

The war in Vietnam ended without victory and without even a real truce. It ended with the defeat of the United States. Still, in retrospect, Vietnam can be seen as one battle in the long, global conflict against communist totalitarianism.

And in the final years of the 20th century, the Cold War ended when American pressure, and communism's own internal contradictions, brought down the Soviet empire.

Today, amid all the rhetoric and posturing, we are really debating whether to fight for victory, accept a stalemate or resign ourselves to defeat in Iraq and in the wider war against jihadi terrorism and totalitarianism.

To be sure, some people separate Iraq from the broader conflict. They argue there is no proof Saddam Hussein was involved with the many acts of terrorism carried out against Americans .......

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Americans, Zarqawi wrote to bin Laden, "are the most cowardly of God's creatures. They are an easy quarry, praise be to God. We ask God to enable us to kill and capture them to sow panic among those behind them."

Whether you were for or against the decision to topple Saddam a year ago, imagine the consequences were the United States to withdraw before defeating Zarqawi, were the United States to retreat once again, to abandon the Iraqis - or leave it to the "international community" to defend them from the international terrorists in their midst.

You can bet Zarqawi and bin Laden are imagining precisely that.

[SandRat]

Victory or Defeat the Choice is ours to make.

[rageaholic]

I thought we already lost? That's what I read in the New York Times.

[gortklattu]

For some people, the choice isn't theirs....it's their party's choice.

Incapable of independent thought or ability to learn from the lessons of history, they are dependent on the guidance from others in their party. If they are told to hate, they will hate. If they are told that W poses more of a danger to the free world than the terrorists, they will believe that too.

People incapable of independent thought do not understand independence, nor are they able to shoulder its burdens.

[The Wizard]

there is no retreat, not deviation from our plans, just the flexibility to increase their effectiveness.

[MACVSOG68]

Good post. The author did not, however, articulate what dangers a loss in Iraq would pose. A loss to the extremists in Iraq would set up a base for the downfall of every country in the region moderate toward the West. That includes Saudi Arabia, Jordan and even Egypt. Pakistan would surely fall, as it may eventually in any case.

At that point, Al Qaeda and a consortium of other terrorist groups would have their thumb on the entire oil rich Middle East and central Asia. An extremist Islamic empire would be theirs for the taking. Since Pakistan already has nuclear technology, and both biological and chemical technology exist in Syria and Iran, that Islamic empire would then be backed up by horrendous capabilities.

Don't for a second believe that is not their intentions nor their goals. But to achieve that, the United States must leave the region, and with the help of the Democrat Party, we may well do that. This is a domino theory that makes Vietnam look like a Sunday school picnic.

[datura]

And those people, being nothing more than dead weight (at best) in our society, should be treated as the enemies that they truly are. Internment, or at least prosecution for sedition or treason would be one alternative.

[Thom Pain]

"Pakistan would surely fall, as it may eventually in any case."

Don't forget that Pakistan has nukes and delivery systems. Too horrible to even ponder. Defeat in Iraq and the wider war on terrorism is a guarantee of eventual loss of our sovereignty and ultimate widespread terrorism right here.

[InterceptPoint]

The articles and posts claiming that we have failed in the mission if not lost the battle entirely in Falujia and Najaf miss the key point that we are getting ready to turn the government over the people of Iraq in just over 30 days. At that time it will be the Iraqi leadership that decides what, when and how we will negotiate with the thugs that want to undermine their rule. All that is going on now is simply practice to see how that will work. I personally think it is working fine. The fighting has more or less stopped, American lives are not being lost in great numbers and the Iraqis seem to be able to restore some level of tranquility. It could be a lot worse than this.

And, when I see the Liberal Media complaining that we are not being ruthless enough in dealing with the "insurgents" a big red flag goes off immediately.

[EQAndyBuzz]

"Americans, Zarqawi wrote to bin Laden, "are the most cowardly of God's creatures. They are an easy quarry, praise be to God. We ask God to enable us to kill and capture them to sow panic among those behind them." "

And God will help them. Because God has no use for secularist communists and that is who is telling the world we should not be in Iraq.

We are at war because of people like Kerry, Pelosi, Levin, Leahy and Kennedy, who sold their souls for power. Well it is time to pay up. And they don't want to write the check.

[MACVSOG68]

Don't forget that Pakistan has nukes and delivery systems. Too horrible to even ponder. Defeat in Iraq and the wider war on terrorism is a guarantee of eventual loss of our sovereignty and ultimate widespread terrorism right here.

Yep. Did mention that in my post, but your reminder is important. People simply do not understand the danger, and part of the reason for that is our President's unwillingness to articulate the connection between terrorism and Islam. If people do not see that connection, then they do not see terrorism as anything more than car bombs here and there. President Bush must put political correctness aside and clearly remind the American people that it is Islam, not simply terrorism that is the enemy of freedom.

[SLB]

PING!

[M 91 u2 K]

And, when I see the Liberal Media complaining that we are not being ruthless enough in dealing with the "insurgents" a big red flag goes off immediately.

Since when is the Liberal Media complaining about us not using enough force, they are saying we use to much when in reality we do not use enough. In Falluja and Najaf it looks like a retreat and pereception in War is important. We said we would get "Al- Sadr's illegal militia", and in Falluja bring the terrorists to justice, but have not done either.

The civilians in Falluja were cheering in the streets when Americans were killed and mutilated. By allowing Falluja and Najaf to stand American is not showing the Muslim World we are kind but we are WEAK. And when Radical Muslims smell WEAKNESS they come after you like a shark to blood.

[Alamo-Girl]

Bump!

[Joe Brower]

The America-haters, both foreign and domestic, would love to see the U.S. bow to their non-stop beratement and call it quits. It would be a double-win for them: their agitprop would have proven itself effective again, as it did in Vietnam, and they would have succeeded in taking down the Great Satan a peg.

Of course, this doesn't even take into account the long-term damage this would do to world affairs, as the Islamakazis take it as a sign that their road to world-wide ruin is free and clear.

Of course, the suicidal left cares nothing about this, being so pathologically focused on "how evil America is; how evil Bush is". They can't see anything else. That includes the freight train coming right at them, the one with the red crescent on the front.

[Euro-American Scum]

The America-haters, both foreign and domestic, would love to see the U.S. bow to their non-stop beratement and call it quits.

And John Kerry would be the ideal candidate to do exactly that.

[InterceptPoint]

We said we would get "Al- Sadr's illegal militia", and in Falluja bring the terrorists to justice, but have not done either.

You may be right but I think you have to allow the military leadership in Iraq to play their hand the best they can.

Although it would be reasonable to suspect interference from Washington and, in particular, the State Department my gut feel is that this was an American military initiative. Sadr and his followers can claim victory until Hell freezes over but will not convince the majority of Iraqis or, I believe, The Arab Man on the Street that they were successful. They cannot help but notice his retreat from the positions that his militia occupied and wanted to hold, his failure to provoke a general uprising and, most importantly, his disappearance from the headlines that will happen soon.

Yes, we want Sadr but it is up to the Iraqi's to deal with him. I think they will do so in their own way.

[1903A3]

Victory or death actually

[Scott from the Left Coast]

The problem is that we are a deeply divided nation and society. Somewhere around one-half of our own people would rather destroy our current President than defeat Bin Laden or Zarqawi -- in fact they concern themselves very little with those Jihadis, to the point that they use them as propoganda allies. There is a large segment of our society, and we know exactly who they are, "mainstream" as they now are, who will happily ally themselves with Bin Laden and Zarqawi for their own ends. Those ends being the toppling of the current President and replacement with one of their own.

We are in a civil war in this nation...it's just being fought in a different way than the last one, so far.

[snopercod]

In Falluja and Najaf it looks like a retreat

It was. The day the marines were ordered to stand down in Falluja was the day we lost this war.

And what ever happened to the principle of not negotiating with terrorists? This administration didn't hesitate for a millisecond to make a deal with Al-Sadr (who has already broken his part of the bargain.)

On this Memorial Day, I will be thinking of WW II - the last war that Americans actually wanted to win.