Posted on 05/26/2004 1:25:08 PM PDT by dj_animal_2000
According to Belgrade daily Vecernje Novosti (Evening News), the most influential Albanian drganizer of the event was Richard Holbrooke, while many of his former cohorts from the Clinton days took part: Madeleine Albright, Wesley Clark and James Rubin, as well as local Congressman Eliott Engel, known supporter of Albanian causes.
"The purpose of the meeting was to raise funds and secure Albanian-American votes for Democratic presidential candidate [John] Kerry," says the Novosti report, adding that in return, the Democrats promised Albanians the independence of Kosovo.
The unnamed Novosti source in New York also claims that Kosovo Albanians sent a low-level delegation to the meeting, trying to stay below radar. Among the conclusions of the gathering, the report alleges, was that the process of Kosovo's separation was proceeding according to plan; that the March attacks on Serbs did some short-term damage to the cause, but that in the big picture, the ethnic cleansing that occurred actually served the Albanians' purpose.
Kosovo and American Albanians were supposedly also told that if Kerry were elected, he would most likely appoint Holbrooke the new Secretary of State, and he would continue Albright's policies, namely support the independence of Kosovo.
General Wesley Clark, reportedly admonished the Kosovo Albanians for the March events, tlling them to "influence their local commanders so as to improve relations with KFOR," say Novosti.
According to the paper, the participants agreed to organize the All-Albanian Congress, which would formulate the new strategy of Albanian national policy in the Balkans; the Congress would take place mid-summer, in Macedonia...
Unless someone can place Clark, Albright, Rubin and Holbrooke in New York this Monday, it's hard to say whether this report is accurate or not. Certainly, all of them have been very supportive of Albanian causes, specifically endorsing the independence of Kosovo. That Holbrooke might be Kerry's StateSec is a rumor circulating for quite some time.
I suppose we'll know for sure if that All-Albanian Congress is really held in Macedonia this summer...
This is another reason we have to defeat Kerry in 2004.
Mark and Captain, thanks for your posts, I learned a lot.
Milosevic was too stupid to realise that he has to give something more to US, namely, he refused to accept annex B of Rambuillet "proposal", that would give US army camps, bases, legal imunity, rights on transport and movement all across Serbia...
Annex B provided NATO (not US) right of access, to include basing, inside Serbia proper. It was not necessary to resolve the Kosovo situation and, of note, the Kosovar Albanian negotiators at Rambouillet could not have cared any less about it. However, it was a show-stopper for the Serbs. It is now thought of as the third of the three significant US diplomatic blunders in regard to Kosovo. The first was in not addressing Kosovo in the Dayton process and thus undermining Rugova's peaceful approach while strengthing the Albanians who said that only violence would work. The second was Ambassador Gelbard's statement in Belgrade in early 1998 in which he described the KLA as terrorists. Milosevic took that as a "green light" to launch the military campaign that ended up slaughtering the civilians in Drenica and thereby galvanizing KLA recruitment and activity throughout Kosovo.
With conspiracy theories in such abundance in the Balkans, it is not a wonder that Annex B is considered by many Serbs as simply a way to make Rambouillet unacceptable and therefore trigger the bombing campaign. Personally, I am not so ready to discount that it was simple incompetence by the Clinton State Department.
My brother was artilery officer there [Kosovo] and my friend was serving the army there so I know what were they saying before the bombing - We have to risk our lives and be extremely careful not to harm civilians
A big part of the Serb regular Army did not participate in the atrocities and war crimes in Kosovo. Some of the Albanian refugees even commented on instances of regular Serbian Army soldiers saving them from being killed or robbed by Serb paramilitaries. The major portion of the "personal" type atrocities; i.e. the killings, robberies, rapes, etc in Kosovo are attributed to the paramilitaries, hastily mobilized reservists, and the special police. It is my opinion that the firepower intensive tactics used by the Serb Army against the KLA were both ineffective and served to rally international support for the Kosovar Albanians as well as further alienate the locals. But that is not a warcrime, just a difference over tactics.
The law will apply only among the equal ones, with stronger doing what they want, and weaker suffering what they have - Tukididus (spel?), "Pelophonesian wars"
The American spelling is Thucydides and I recognize the quote from his "Melian Dialogue". I disagree with your implication that the USA plays the role of Athens and Serbia of Melos, but I certainly respect the intellect of any young man who knows such things and can introduce them in a conversation conducted in a non-native language.
Now for the important stuff--the Pistons absolutely dominated the Pacers last night. Indiana looks tired and demoralized whhile the Pistons looked energized and will play at home tomorrow night. If they win, it will likely be a Lakers-Pistons championship series. You're right, Ben Wallace has been "toughening-up" Darko Milicic in practice; maybe preparing him for the Piston's secret strategy of putting Darko on Shaq in the finals! Or maybe not. Although he doesn't play much, Darko is a crowd favorite in Detroit--the crowd cheers as soon he stands up from the bench to go in a game. As the only seven-foot tall dyed blond hair millionaire Serbian teenager in Detroit, he gets a lot of attention. We're looking forward to some productive court time in another year or two.
Thanks for the ping, the captain is one sharp cookie.
Milo swallowed hook line and sinker Gelbard's statement and miscalculated badly, as expected.
-Wesley Clark finished selection of targets in October 1998, several months before Racak hoax.
-U.S. alphabet agencies have trained Albanian terrorists
-There is an eyewitness account, stated by CATO staff about Mad Cow Albright's statement in Rambouillet, to the effect of the words "Serbs deserve some bombing and bombing they will get".
One of the most shameful episodes of American history was no mistake - facts points toward an elaborate plan.
Ok, I understand you. Kosta50 was right, I do get carried away, so I write essays
:-) I have to control myself better. Question of experience...
I have realy hard exam next Monday, law of contracts. Huh. :-)
Hello getofmylawn, how you doin'?
Back to your few points, Mark. I just hope you'll reconsider the rest of my post, maybe rethink some issues...
If you look better, having NATO free to move all the way around Serbia, like in Bosnia, that would be as almost as an occupation. You're right that "...the Kosovar Albanian negotiators at Rambouillet could not have cared any less about it..." but then again, why something like that had to be demanded from Serbia? Why, if situation on Kosovo was the issue? You can say it was "...the third of the three significant US diplomatic blunders in regard to Kosovo..." if you apriori place Albright and her team as good guys with good intentions, but not so wise though, and Milosevic and his crew as vicious ethnic cleaners eager to find any reason to abandon the peace talks. And get bombed, eventualy, but this isn't some logic, but who cares.
Don't you see how your interpretation of such grave, serious, crucial moment, that ultimatum, is guided by your pre-acceptance of mainstream explanantion of Milosevic's (Serbian) lunatic behavior?
Kosovo was peaceful at the time of Dayton, so I guess Clinton wanted to use Serb defeats in the western fronts to close the Bosnian case as soon as possible. Raising Kosovo question would make that harder. Some people in Serbia say that, in antoher view, by doing that, Clinton sent strong message to Albanians that armed struggle is the only way to get atention. If you ask yourself right after the question about passive albanian support to Milosevic (by not voting against him), it's scary to accept the logic.
Well how would you call armed group performing sudden attacks on postmen, forrest guards, and other people working for local authorities, be them albanians or serbs, roma, gorani? Do yuo know how many albanians were killed by the hand of KLA? Just for being loyal to Serbia? I know, terrorists for me, or freedom fighters for you. Again we come to the point of arbitrary decision. And US chose to consider KLA as terrorists back then. And no, it was not the sign for Milosevic to "...launch the military campaign that ended up slaughtering the civilians in Drenica ..."
You're bringing new moment here - Drenica and Adam Yashari's family. Special forces surrounded his compound, calling them to surrender. After refusal, our soldiers left him two hrs to give chance to civilians, to his own females and children to leave. And he did that. But he didn't allow all civilians to leave. One part left, and they were safe in the hands of our police. But Adem Yashari didn't let go the other, minor part of civilians. It was proven by our forensics that his brothers son was killed from Adem Yashari's gun. It makes no difference, since our troops killed all of them who left there (I don't remember if anyone was captured alive). It was clean, except for Adem Yashari's trick to simulate all civilians leaving. My distant cousin was shot in the compound in his stomack. And the reason for action in Drenica was murdr of two policemen, Sijan and Koncarevic.
Serbia didn't want "accidents", because lessons of frame ups like in Vasa Miskin street or Markale from Sarajevo were learned. Almost. But you can't defend from such things. You get attacked by terrorists, they hide behind civilians, you fight them, and "collateral damage" you make ends up as "deliberate massacres". And deliberate masacres by NATO jets, later on, end up as "collateral damage". I have in my mind massacre of albanians returning to their homes in two occasions during bombing.
Conspiracy theory? :-))) What's conspiracy? Conspiracy is secret agreement against the third party. Do you think it's something strange in today's politics?
Why would Serbs want Rambouillet fail, for God's sake, we all saw what's going on, even people who were eating the tear gas for years in anti-Milosevic demonstrations saw the game set up for us, without much chances to win in it. bah...
Yes, but that's what I'm saying, there was no organised campaign of attrocities against albanians, especialy not before the bombing. Once bombing started, people felt like animals, fighting KLA on the ground, while being bombed from air by KLA allies who also bomb their cities far far behind the front, allover Serbia. So, besides individual crimes, the worst thing soldiers did was to put their own safety infront of the safety of albanian civilians used by KLA as cover up. In all wars, Serbs were standing infront of serb civilians, trying to protect them, while all other parties were safely leaving their civilians in the hands of serb army. Like muslims did in srebrenica, like croats did in central bosnia, like albanians did in kosovo.
Ah, yes, I knew it, because I was reading serbian edition. Thucydides ... Now I know. Thanks. I like the thought. I think he's right. You can see it better when you're small nation. I read Marcus Aurelius "Meditations" in english. Excelent book. Did you read it, maybe? I bought it in American Uni in Bulgaria. 4 levs. Something over two bucks I guess. Some bargain :-)
Yah, sports is always the most important thing. You know, back then in 1997, 1998, when situation was going for worse on Kosovo, people expected sanctions to get tighten more, but they were also scared about possibility of renewing "sport sanctions". :-) Then we won the World basketball championship in Athens :-)
Well, Pistons or Pacers, none of them has any chances against Lakers. I wonder how west became so dominant? remember golden era of dirty dozen, detroits team from end of eighties? joe dumars, bill leimbier (again spell?), isiah thomas... The Chicago. I'm a fan of NY Knicks from 1994 finals with Houston. I'll never forget Starks and his 19-1 field goals, damn! I'm sorry for players like Ewing, Barkley, leaving without the ring.
Hahaha, I just wonder what would Darko do against Shaq :-))) maybe get on his back, but I guess that wouldn't help much either. Hack a Shaq, until he get's pissed and starts missing free throws :-)
I just hope fame won't corrupt him. He's young. Did you know he's a refugee from Croatia? Just like Peja Stojakovic and Vladimir Radmanovic (seattle). People here are angry on Peja, for his awful performance in 7th game against the T'wolves. People say he's a chicken shit, good when it's not important.
But wait for the new drafts. We have several new players that will be so cool! Managers predict young Nemanja Aleksandrov will be first pick! Our junior teams kick ass in international tournaments.
Well, till next time,
I wish you all people health!
The only way the idiots in the West are going to survive is by acting as ONE CHRISTIAN BLOCK AGAINST the Moslem aggression. The Moslems are certainly acting as “US against THEM”! If we don't drop the fairness crap, and adopt “US against THEM” we will certainly parish. The Moslem expansionist movement has been in progress for more than 1500 years, and now it is funded with the petrodollars from Saudi Arabia. Stop listening to the lies of our media. It is so simple. If these bastards stop blowing things up all over the world, I may have some respect for them. If minority Moslems militants are doing the blowing ups, and the majority Moslems are ashamed of them, and preach in the mosques against them, then I may have sympathy. But, you, and I know that 95% of all Moslems support that violence, and the violence starts from the hate filled sermons in the Mosques!
Best regards
Now, given the fact that Milosevic was not a Christian himself and was denounced by the Serbian Orthodox Church for his non-Christian behavior in regard to Kosovo, I'd like to ask you these questions concerning your apparent willingness to support him: What is the point of being Christian if not to behave as one? What is the use of defending Christianity, America and the west if the tactics used in their defense contradict or violate all that for which Christianity, the USA and western culture stands?
And if staying on the moral high ground and adhering to principle doesn't appeal to you, then how about practical effects--do you think allying ourselves with war criminals causes us to gain or lose support from the uncommitted? Do you think it causes our enemies to strengthen or weaken their resolve?
My point is, I don't know if Milosevic is not a good Christian, and I know that he defended his Christian countrymen against the Moslems. I also know that the propaganda campaign to defame him, and the Serbs in general was coming mainly from “non-Christian” sources. I learned early on whatever these non-Christians support, I will knee jerk reject!!!!!
As you, and I are not privy to the truth because it is always covered up with loads of miss-information, and disinformation, the only thing that we have got going is to deduce from whatever information available the logics, and pray that I am correct. As a matter of fact, today, I have lots of information that supports our invasion of Iraq, and lots of contradicting information that proves that move was not needed, and a big mistake. I have to sift through all that propaganda from both sides, and arrive at my own opinion, and “hope” that I am correct. I learned many years ago that very sure people are mostly wrong headed.
One thing confuses me is that the fighters in Kosovo were Albanians????
As far as Milosevic was denounced by the Serbian Orthodox Church for his non-Christian behavior in regard to Kosovo, I do agree with the Christian Patriarch for denouncing his wrong doings. As a Christian priest, you supposed to denounce “ALL” sins; not like the so called "born again" ministers who revel in blood and violence.
Again, I don't know Milosevic but I hate the Albanian Moslems for getting in bed with the Iranians, and bin Laden. Hence, I will support the devil if it is fighting these Islamists. I do not claim to be a sinless Christian; hence I don't practice forgiveness of my enemies as Jesus asked us to do. I however, respect others who do that, and hope to reach that level before I die. Kristos Anasti +++ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.