48 House Catholics send warning to Bishops

MSNBC ^ | May 20, 2004 | Alan Cooperman

[Pyro7480]

Apparently, Obey didn't sign the letter. I printed a .pdf copy of the letter, and his signature wasn't on it.

[broadsword]

The oddest thing is that some cry that the Church will somehow be hurt by losing its dissenters, Lavender Mafia predators and heretics.

Unbelievable! It's like saying we should fill the clean, but half empty, pool with sewage so it will be more fun to swim. All the freaks have done is to sink the Church into infamy, filth and corruption.

[ninenot]

Since neither the Bishop nor Daschle has released the letter for publication, I have no idea why he is 'formerly Catholic.'

Read 915 yet?

[sinkspur]

I read it; I know it.

What evidence do you have that Daschle is "formerly Catholic"?

You're out on a limb here, ninenot.

Daschle has not been excommunicated.

[BillyBoy]

>> Billy, where did you get the list of Catholic House Republicans? I was searching through Google for a list of Catholic congressmen and got bupkus

http://www.yourcatholicvoice.org/index.php?id=congress

That's a list of all the Catholics in the current Congress, both parties. I just went through and deleted all the Democrats on the list, sans the ones you listed as refusing to sign the petition.

[NYer]

The moral reasoning can be found in several documents which have come from Rome, including a document on the responsibility of laity in the political order. Others on the thread have the names/documentation---pinging

This is what ninenot is referring to:

Faith in Jesus Christ, who is «the way, the truth, and the life»(Jn 14:6), calls Christians to exert a greater effort in building a culture which, inspired by the Gospel, will reclaim the values and contents of the Catholic Tradition. 
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life

In the Catholic tradition, responsible citizenship is a virtue; participation in the political process is a moral obligation.

[AuH2ORepublican]

Thanks for the list.

I counted 75 Catholic Democrats and 53 Catholic Republicans in the House (including delegates and resident commissioners, since one of the 48 House Catholics that signed the letter was the delegate from Guam). That means that 53 Catholic House Republicans and 27 Catholic House Democrats did not sign the letter. Of the 27 Catholic House Democrats who did not sign, 13 are pro-life (the 12 I mentioned plus Gene Taylor of Mississippi, whom I had forgotten is Catholic), and a half-dozen of the 14 pro-aborters who did not sign the letter voted for the partial-birth abortion ban. Here are the 80 Catholic Representatives who did not sign the letter:

Acevedo-Vila, Anibal, D - PR
Beauprez, Bob, R - CO
Bishop, Timothy H., D - NY
Boehlert, Sherwood, R - NY
Boehner, John A., R - OH
Brady, Kevin, R - TX
Brown-Waite, Ginny, R - FL
Camp, Dave, R - MI
Castle, Michael N., R - DE
Chabot, Steve, R - OH
Costello, Jerry F., D - IL
Cox, Christopher, R - CA
Crowley, Joseph, D - NY
Diaz-Balart, Lincoln, R - FL
Diaz-Balart, Mario, R - FL
English, Phil, R - PA
Ferguson, Mike, R - NJ
Foley, Mark, R - FL
Fossella, Vito, R - NY
Gingrey, Phil, R - GA
Green, Mark, R - WI
Gutknecht, Gil, R - MN
Hart, Melissa A., R - PA
Hastings, Doc, R - WA
Hinojosa, Ruben, D - TX
Holden, Tim, D - PA
Hulshof, Kenny C., R - MO
Hyde, Henry J., R - IL
John, Christopher, D - LA
Jones, Walter B., R - NC
Kanjorski, Paul E., D - PA
Kaptur, Marcy, D - OH
Kennedy, Mark R., R - MN
Kennedy, Patrick J., D - RI
Kildee, Dale E., D - MI
King, Peter T., R - NY
King, Steve, R - IA
Kleczka, Gerald D., D - WI
Knollenberg, Joe, R - MI
LaHood, Ray, R - IL
Lipinski, William O., D - IL
LoBiondo, Frank A., R - NJ
Marshall, Jim, D - GA
McCotter, Thaddeus G, R - MI
McHugh, John M., R - NY
McInnis, Scott, R - CO
McNulty, Michael R., D - NY
Menendez, Robert, D - NJ
Michaud, Michael H, D - ME
Murphy, Tim, R - PA
Murtha, John P., D - PA
Neal, Richard E., D - MA
Ney, Robert W., R - OH
Northup, Anne M., R - KY
Nunes, Devin, R - CA
Obey, David R., D - WI
Otter, C. L. Butch, R - ID
Pombo, Richard W., R - CA
Porter, Jon C., R - NV
Quinn, Jack, R - NY
Radanovich, George, R - CA
Rangel, Charles B., D - NY
Renzi, Rick, R - AZ
Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana, R - FL
Roybal-Allard, Lucille, D - CA
Royce, Edward R., R - CA
Ryan, Paul, R - WI
Shaw, E. Clay, R - FL
Smith, Christopher H., R - NJ
Sullivan, John A., R - OK
Sweeney, John E., R - NY
Tauscher, Ellen O., D - CA
Tauzin, W. J. Billy, R - LA
Taylor, Gene, D - MS
Tiberi, Patrick J., R - OH
Tierney, John F., D - MA
Toomey, Patrick J., R - PA
Visclosky, Peter J., D - IN
Vitter, David, R - LA
Walsh, James T., R - NY

[Diva]

Stupak added that he has been surprised by the partisanship of some bishops.

"I've had some threaten not to give Communion to me, even though they don't know my position, just because I'm a Democrat," he said. "I've had cardinals refuse to shake my hand because I'm a Democrat, and then somebody whispers to them that, 'No, no, he's a good guy.' "

This is the mess the bishops are making. They assume that every Catholic Democrat is pro-choice.

Sinkspur, I would be very surprised if what Stupak is saying is true. I'd like for him to name the Bishops and priests he is referring to. There are none in Michigan that I know of who have refused to shake his hand and if it was Cardinal Maida I know that would have made the news!

[Kuksool]

[Bart Stupak, Jim Langevin, Mike Doyle, Tim Ryan and Jim Oberstar. I guess those guys have decided to place politics ahead of their faith.]

They are obeying their faith. These RATS submit to the wills of their Labor Union Masters.

[Kuksool]

[This is simple. Assume The Catholic Church is the PGA Tour. It has rules. If you want to be in the PGA you follow the rules. If you think you can bend or avoid a rule you will be penalized for doing so. If you evade the penalty you will be disqualified. If you continue to to this you will be banned. Don't like that? Start your own golf league.]

Worth repeating. If the 48 RATS are unhappy with the Catholic Church, then they should quit being Catholics and join some liberal Protestant denomination. We have freedom of religion, there is nothing holding these RATS back.

[Conservative til I die]

Trolling, are we?

[Conservative til I die]

This is the mess the bishops are making. They assume that every Catholic Democrat is pro-choice.

Well, as is typical with you, you're on the wrong side of the argument. Maybe it's the DEMOCRATS who are giving everyone the crazy idea, with their words and deeds, that they're a bunch of morbid, pro-abortion, pro-culture of death ghouls.

But then again, you're compelled to knock the Church whenever it does something right, so I guess I'm talking to a wall here.

[Poohbah]

Is a Democrat pro-life politician sinning by belonging to a party that clearly supports abortion?

IMNHO...yes.

When push comes to shove, the vote will be with the party. Not just on things like legislation, but on things like party leadership.

[ninenot]

I have exactly the same take on Stupak's comments.

There's another possibility--that is that the Bishop(s) in question (if they exist) have ANOTHER bone to pick with him.

But don't expect clarification from Sinky or Stupak. Sink's objective is to undermine the Church's authority.

[ninenot]

I think the question of attaching "sin" to Party membership is absolutely loaded with shades of gray. (Intention is critical, for example...)

All the more reason to look at the Constitution Party. Perhaps not in this election---but there will be more.

[BlackElk]

It is for Lurch to wonder where the actual Catholics are. He won't be getting their votes.

It is evident that you do not know us. I'll stand pat on #30 as a response. As I said there, you seem to be of somewhat good will but, if Catholics feel a need for your theological advice, we will be sure to ask.

BTW, historically, the humanism of the Renaissance (Erasmus, et al.) was a direct ancestor of the very humanist errors of the "reformation." You could look it up.

If you are sincerely interested in an actual Catholic analysis of and anathematization of what is now called "secular humanism", you could order a copy of the Encyclical Pascendi Domenici Gregis or On the Doctrines of the Modernists by Pope St. Pius X (August, 1907) and its accompanying syllabus of errors on the subject Lamentabili Sane (July, 1907) both available in one pamphlet for about $5 from the Daughters of St. Paul. I guarantee you will be verrrrry surprised if you make the effort.

You are also getting your accusations confused. Wasn't that sale of Indulgences and not of annulments that the renegade Augustinian was worked up over before massacring his own vows?

If you have problems with the papacy, take them up with your Savior and mine since He created the papacy. It was in all the Bibles, including yours. But you knew that. I only respond like this to attacks on the Catholic Faith by those who evidently understand it not.

[Barnacle]

The letter's signers, all Democrats...

You're in good company Mr. Spur.

[sinkspur]

I wouldn't have signed the letter, Barney.

[Barnacle]

I would reply to that, but I'm running a little late for my astronaut flight simulator session.

[Natural Law]

The Church has survived persecution from the Roman government, the Protestant Reformation, Socialism, Fascism and Communism. It has nothing to worry about from 48 piss-ant Democrat House members!