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To: RnMomof7
We need to realize that the scriptures are written by men for men.

There's your first mistake. I believe the scriptures were written by God and that he used men to pen them. I don't believe they were authored by men.

2ndly... I'll address your text when you address mine. The bible says clearly that God changed his mind at the request of Moses. Now you can twist that all you want, you can claim that the text was written by men, you can rationalize it away by asking me why I would then believe in the promise of salvation.... and whatever else you want to say.... the THE BIBLE SAYS GOD CHANGED HIS MIND.

There was a bumper sticker that was popular a few years back. Well, probably not popular with the calvinists.... but it simply said... "Prayer Changes Things". I believe it changes more than just our relationship with God.

313 posted on 05/18/2004 11:41:39 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22
The bible was not dictated by God to men. Each man wrote the scriptures under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in his words and his style and with his experience. The inspired material was from God, but the writers were men

The scriptures were written in way to make God and His ways understandable. So God uses human words and concepts so that we can understand

2ndly... I'll address your text when you address mine. The bible says clearly that God changed his mind at the request of Moses. Now you can twist that all you want, you can claim that the text was written by men, you can rationalize it away by asking me why I would then believe in the promise of salvation.... and whatever else you want to say.... the THE BIBLE SAYS GOD CHANGED HIS MIND.

.And it also says God does not change his mind.. I am not twisting anything, I am quoting the word of God, which you have still failed to address. How do you see the fact that over and over that the bible says God is faithful to His word with one line of scripture were there is one antopromorphic phrase?

You have not dealt with it because you can not. You have not dealt with how can you be secure that God will not flood the world again with water and destroy all men , or that He will withdraw his salvation from you?

How an you have faith in a fickle God? That is the question i am asking

You have just denied two of the attributes of God, omniscience and immutability ..are there any more that you want to eliminate as you go along?

There was a bumper sticker that was popular a few years back. Well, probably not popular with the calvinists.... but it simply said... "Prayer Changes Things". I believe it changes more than just our relationship with God.

Do you believe in the Foreknowledge of God at all? Does it seem unlikely that God would call us to prayer and have that be a part of his ordained plan?

Jesus said that God knows our needs before we pray . He says that we are to pray not in our will but in His.

  We do not find any instruction in the Bible teaching us to petition God to change His mind.  Instead we find in every example of prayer in Scripture is agreement with God, asking Him to do those things He has already committed Himself to do.

Prayer is the ordained means of communication between God and His people. We alone have the honor to approach the throne of God . But the prayer is not to change the mind of God, but that we have peace with His will.

“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.” (Phil. 4:6-7)

I always find it interesting that the same people that say Calvinists think man is a puppet of God are the same ones that ask God to infringe on the free will of others for something they want.

If you insist that man must have the power of ultimate self-determination (by free will) , what is the point of praying for him?

What do you want God to do to Him to change him? Are you not asking God to violate the mans free will?

Calvinists believe that God has ordained the means as well as the end. He calls us to participate in His work, not only preaching the gospel , but in petitioning His help in difficult circumstances .It is God the Holy Spirit who moves upon our hearts to pray. In obedience and confidence, we can pray that God will accomplish His own purposes as He wills. By the means appointed to us, namely prayer, we have the honor to call upon God to bring to pass those things that we desire. We pray because God has commanded it, especially that petition that His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Luke 11:2) . Our prayer is to line up with the will of God, not line God up with OUR will. If it is the will of God, it will come to pass.

If you believe you can change the mind of God through your prayers, I hope you use discretion. If that is the power you have, it is certainly a most dangerous thing. We know God does not need our counsel in order to set up what is desirable.God knows all minds and hearts, does not need to have us intervene to tell Him what He ought to do. The thought that we are changing the mind of God by our prayers is a terrifying concept..

This is a devotional that I think makes the point

Does Prayer Change Things ?

They say that prayer changes things, but does it REALLY change anything?
Oh yes! It really does!

Does prayer change your present situation or sudden circumstances?
No, not always, but it does change the way you look at those events.

Does prayer change your financial future?
No, not always, but it does change who you look to for meeting your daily needs.

Does prayer change shattered hearts or broken bodies?
No, not always, but it will change your source of strength and comfort.

Does prayer change your wants and desires?
No, not always, but it will change your wants into what God desires!

Does prayer change how you view the world?
No, not always, but it will change whose eyes you see the world through.

Does prayer change your regrets from the past?
No, not always, but it will change your hopes for the future!

Does prayer change the people around you?
No, not always, but it will change you~ the problem isn't always in others.

Does prayer change your life in ways you can't explain?
Oh, yes, always! And it will change you from the inside out!

So does prayer REALLY change ANYTHING?
Yes! It REALLY does change EVERYTHING!

331 posted on 05/18/2004 1:38:14 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ("You did not choose me I chose you " Jesus Christ)
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