Posted on 05/13/2004 8:10:39 PM PDT by churchillbuff
Abusive treatment under the supervision of military intelligence officers may have been intentionally used as part of the interrogation of Iraqi captives at the Abu Ghraib prison, according to a previously unpublished photograph of U.S. soldiers and other personnel obtained by NBC News.
The photograph was taken during the interrogation of several Iraqi prisoners who are depicted naked in a heap on the floor, according to a military police officer who faces a court-martial in connection with alleged abuses at the notorious facility on the outskirts of Baghdad.
The officer, Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr., 35, of Greene County, Pa., is leaning against the wall in the photograph, which was provided by his attorney, Guy Womack.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
This story is rapidly approaching 'So What' status in my book...
Nick Berg tipped the balance for me...
You do realize that the interrogation guidelines you speak of were not the activities this rogue group was engaging in...activities that have been roundly condemned from the highest levels.
if you are right (and i am wrong), i will be very happy. (as much as i detest rumsfeld, i would take him over kerry.) a lot will depend on what the pentagon knew, what they ordered, and how this plays with the public.
They used the term to convey the (mistaken) notion of this "going up the chain of command".
the media should have dumped ALL of the photos in a 3 day period - they should have tried for the "saturation bombing" approach, the white house political operation is indeed poor, I will admit to that; slow to react, no talking points, no counter attack, poor media strategy.
To knock off the defense secretary, and indirectly discredit and neuter the entire US military in time of war, is a bold attempt by the left. It shows the depths of their depravity.
We are slowly exterminating the vermin in Iraq. They know that we are locating many of their comrades by interrogating prisoners. Hence, they are using U.S. leftists in the U.S. in an attempt to stop these interrogations and slow the attrition of their comrades. Interpretation? U.S. leftists have committed treason against our great nation. What is the penalty for treason . . . ?
i realize there is a difference. but the actual approved guidelines were not what the military wanted--the lawyers and politicians in the defense dept pushed them thru. and there is, unfortunately, a creepy resemblance between the real guidelines and the crazy stuff that the MP's were doing. allowing the use of stress positions and dogs (in a written document, yet) is the problem. when people see the pics of the positions actually used, and of the dogs actually used, then read the guidelines, they will make a connection. i think the actual abuse was a distortion of the guidelines, but the problem is, the pentagon made no serious attempt to prevent the guidelines (after they pushed them thru) from being distorted by the MP's on the scene.
i realize that rumsfeld did not order what the MP's did, but his guys started the train rolling, and did nothing to prevent a wreck.
but, if these guys being interrogated were such important terrorist prisoners, why was the security so lax that hundreds of pics were taken and a video was made? something doesn's add up.
real terrorists should be kept in secure places with reliable guards, not a bunch of sex-crazed national guardspeople. security should stop all unauthorized cameras.
every one of these pics just recruits more people for the insurgency.
good nite, people. i hope our guys will get it together and eliminate the terrorists in a more expeditious and non-photographed manner.
i'm gonna curl up with my books about the alamo and read about how you fight a war to win.
how about sam houston or george marshall?
the insurgency recruitment drive is actually going the other way - more Shia are protesting against Sadr then joining up with him. the average iraqi likely knows full well who these prisoners are - fedayeen, iraqi secret police, baath party thugs, foreign fighters - there isn't too much pity for them, except amongst the media and the Democrat Senate caucus (Lieberman and Miller excluded).
anyone keeping track of how many US soldiers have been killed in combat and car bomb/IED style attacks since this whole prison scandal broke?
But you are right on the other point - discipline and training were non-existant. But no one is covering that up, its being admitted to all the way up the chain.
Very well said.
Marshall served as SecDef for less than year. But I would readily rank him as one of our greatest Secretarys of State.
The office was not created until 1947, so I don't think The Raven qualifies for consideration.
well, that is good news.
Personally, I agree. But the fact that the media felt free to publicize the photos 24/7 infers that they thought they were "PG-rated" -- i.e., not particularly harmful.
If the abuse was as gruesome as they claimed, however, they would not have shown the pictures. Their own actions belied the spin they tried to put on them.
My belief is that the intelligence officers, including civilian intelligence from CACI (spelling maybe CACE) were the ones who wanted photos for interrogation purposes, and some commanding officer told troops to give them what they wanted, although he did not know it would violate Geneva Convention rules. Many being reservists were not prepared properly and "readiness" was not what is should have been,
thereby causing them to commit these violations just following orders.
Rumsfeld is right where he is supposed to be, and his resigning would be a sign that the US did something wrong, and would hurt Bush's chances of getting reelected....NO WAY should Rumsfeld resign. There is too much going on in Iraq and around the world right now to get a replacement, that would really hurt Bush now.
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