The Economy Bomb - Ticking Down Faster

Action America ^ | May 10, 2004 | John Gaver

[winodog]

Thats sarcasm, right?

[HighWheeler]

Unless we can change the "minds" of some rat voters, this article is useless.

What makes this article essentially useless is that there is no listing of how much money you have to make at each level.

Without that, everyone who watches "The Rich and the Famous" on TV are convinced that they themselves are in the bottom half, and then thank God that the rats are screwing the rich.

So they keep voting rat.

[Penner]

Are there any other rich people you'd like to keep out of this country?

If people think that America is so oppressive a place to live, then it is probably better that they go somewhere else. Then I won't have to listen to them whine about how horrible it is to be rich in America.

[HighWheeler]

Hmmmmm.

Did you get that idea from de Führer?

How's the rat kool-aide taste today?

[Know your rights]

If the nouveau riche take their money and run, America will cease to exist.

Straw man. The proposition is that if the rich take their money and run, America will substantially worse off; and the article's author has made a strong case for that proposition.

This isn't about "punishing the evil rich". This is about preventing the creation of an aristocracy here

The difference is merely rhetorical, unless by "aristocracy" you mean something other than "the rich" ... in which case you should explain what you do mean by "aristocracy."

[Know your rights]

If people think that America is so oppressive a place to live, then it is probably better that they go somewhere else. Then I won't have to listen to them whine about how horrible it is to be rich in America.

And you'd gladly pay substantially higher taxes in order to not listen to them?

[HighWheeler]

"This is about preventing the creation of an aristocracy here, which the founding fathers were adamantly against."

OK, then if this idea of taxing the rich to prevent an aristocrasy was so adamant, then you should be able to cite several passages in the Federalist papers and The Constitution. Go ahead.

[Penner]

Are you sure you're posting at the right website?

Sorry. I forgot that on FR these days, wandering off of the beaten path is verboten.

[americanbychoice2]

For 16 years I lived in Europe and was considered an expatriot. I am now retired and live in the US again. I don't even consider moving back, even though I have an aging and ill mother in Germany. I simply could not afford living there anymore.
One very big and obvious fact was omitted though. The US is the only country that taxes an American citizens global income regardless of residency. I had to file a 1040 every year. There is such a thing called an international double taxation treaty which makes you pay the greater of the taxes. For instance, if an American pays no taxes to the host country, he/she will pay taxes to the US government without reaping any of the benefits.
Therefore, a "top 1% earner" will pay almost the same taxes to the US if he/she left or stayed in this country.

[CSM]

"Question is, where are all the wealthy departing to? There has to be somewhere that is more friendly to high income earners."

I'm trying to find the Gulch myself. I would love to shrug off this government funded theft of my time and earned income. I have even thought about selling everything, moving to a ranch and working for land.....

[moehoward]

bumperoo

[Action-America]

And as they walk out the door, strip them of their American citizenship and bar them from entry into the US for the rest of their lives. If they try to sneak back in, lock them up in prison and throw away the key.

You obviously didn't take the time to read the whole article. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, referred to in that article, already denies reentry to wealthy expatriates. Follow the link. It's there in black and white. Furthermore, as also pointed out in the above article, although most expats do not officially renounce their citizenship, they are implicitly accepting that they will never return to the US, when they leave without paying the exorbitant patriotism penalty, of an additional 10 years of US income tax. You fail to understand that it is this very attitude of people like you and our elected officials, that we should strip the wealthy of their assets and citizenship, when they leave, that is one of the primary motivations for this exodus.

It seems that you are under the mistaken impression that the US actually offers something that these people may want. They're rich. Whatever amenity their new country doesn't offer them for free, they will buy with the money that they save, by moving offshore. In some countries, minor electric power outages may occur from time to time, so the wealthy expats buy commercial UPS systems. In some countries, phone service is either unreliable or has a lot of noise on the line, so the wealthy expats have satellite phones. They don't think like you. It's not, "What will the government do for me?", but, "Will the government stay out of my way and let me run my business?"

In 1999, when I asked a retired marine officer acquaintance, who had fled the US in 1997, if he didn't want to go back, his response was, "Why would I want to go back to a country that treated my like the 'enemy', (his word) simply because I had the audacity to make a few million dollars after I retired from defending that very same county?" BTW, he is still proud of his Marine service. Regardless of how he is dressed, when you see him, your first thought will be, "Marine". His house is filled with Marine paraphernalia and photos. He told me that leaving the USA was the hardest thing that he ever did, but that legislators, determined to control his wealth, left him no choice. When I asked him about family back in the US, he told me that with just a tiny portion of the additional income that he has earned since moving offshore, he had already paid to fly both his brother's family and his sister's large family to each visit him at each of his two homes (in two countries). I saw him a couple of years later and he told me that he had absolutely no regrets.

History has proven that the more a government tightens its grip on wealth, the more wealth slips out of its control. If the kid with the football keeps getting beat up by his teammates, after every game, pretty soon, he will take his football and find a new team to play with.

 

[Penner]

Thats sarcasm, right?

And a little exaggeration. I just don't agree with the article.

[CSM]

"If people think that America is so oppressive a place to live, then it is probably better that they go somewhere else. Then I won't have to listen to them whine about how horrible it is to be rich in America."

Wesly Mouch, is that you? It sure is easy to hate the "rich" when the hate is fueled by class warfare. What do you consider rich? I am by no means rich, but I pay 50% of my earnings in taxes.

[Badeye]

All I know is I opened a company in 1997, and became sucessful as a result of it. I've bought the home my wife and I had always wanted, and 15 acres of land, with a wonderful view. I've never cheated anyone, I've never cheated on my tax returns. In short, I played the game as it was explained to me up until 1997, and won.

Since I went from a median five digit income to a comfortable six digit income, I have listened closely the the Democratic Party. From what I can tell, they seem to think a man with a high school education, that doesn't need a government handout as some kind of "threat to humanity".

I have a news flash for the Democrats. I busted my ass to get where I am in life. I never asked the government for a damn thing, unless it was the wish it would just get the hell out of the way. Continuing to nominate hypocrites like Gore and Kerry, who are far more wealthy than I am today - FROM BIRTH - just pisses me off.

I've created a dozen in-house high paying jobs in a area of the country known for high unemployment even during the boom years of the 1990's (Appalachia Zone in Southern Ohio). I've been responsible since 1997 for hundreds of sub contractors working from their homes becoming very profitable in their own right, based on their hard work from coast to coast.

To keep telling me in effect, I"m an "evil 1%" just makes me even more determined to see you remain in the Minority, and to keep you out of the Whitehouse.

Keep saying people like me, who found the American Dream, are "whats wrong with the system". It ensures you will remain a shrinking minority within our political system for decades to come.

(Rant OFF)

[Dead Dog]

Hook me up!

[Dead Dog]

Thanks for being "Evil", keep it up!

[HighWheeler]

"I forgot that on FR these days, wandering off of the beaten path is verboten."

Saying something stupid and unfounded is forbidden.

And thanks for using the German word for forbidded, der Führer thanks you.

[Taxman]

Thanks for the ping, A-A. Excellent analysis, and timely.

[Badeye]

"Thanks for being "Evil", keep it up!"

No problem, I owe it to my family, and my country to do so.

In that order.